The Terminology Survival Guide for Podcast Editors

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[MUSIC]

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>> How much is that?

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[MUSIC]

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>> Welcome everybody to the Podcast Editor's Mastermind.

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In this episode of Podcast Editor's Mastermind,

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we're going to talk about what these words that we use mean.

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But before we do that, quick second,

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I'm Bryan Entzminger, you can find me at toptieraudio.com, and over here is.

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>> I'm Jesse McEwen, you can find me at Tansy Aster Academy.

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>> I'm Jennifer Longworth at bourbonbarrelpodcasting.com.

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>> In case you weren't able to guess,

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Daniel and Carrie were not able to join us this evening.

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You can find Daniel at RothMedia.audio and Carrie is at Carrie

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.land.

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Today we're going to be talking about what

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some of the vocabulary means that we use as editors.

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This might seem like a super boring topic.

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It's probably not the one that's going to get you a zillion clicks on the Googles.

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But as a person that sometimes struggled with these words,

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I can tell you it's incredibly valuable,

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not only because understanding what the words mean is important,

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but also being able to explain them to prospects and

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to clients in ways that they understand while not talking down to them.

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That is super critical.

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I'm really happy to start getting into this.

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A quick hello, Steve says, "Hi, Steve.

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We're glad that you were able to join us."

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Just another peek behind the curtain,

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many of the things that we're going to be talking

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about today are things that we've been asked about.

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So I posted earlier in the Facebook group.

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We've got a few questions or a few words to define that we got from Steve.

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We got one from Daniel.

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Jennifer and I and Jesse have all come up with some of ours.

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But if you're joining us and we say something that doesn't make sense to you,

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or there's something else you've been wondering about,

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please ask in the chat if you're listening later to

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the actual podcast episode just send us an email info@podcasteditorsmastermind.com,

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because these are the boring parts that really make it all work.

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So Jennifer, you actually raised this topic.

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So why don't you share a little bit about what you were

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thinking when you said we should talk about this?

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Well, you see discussions in the various Facebook groups and sometimes people,

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obviously, don't understand what's being asked or maybe I confess,

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I don't understand what you guys are talking about.

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There was one episode of this show and I was like,

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I am lost but I'm not going to admit it.

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Oh, no.

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So I was like, hey,

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why don't we do a vocab episode?

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Maybe we'll just jump into it.

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I've got it broken down.

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We've got one that's just related to or a couple that are

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related to just general podcasting stuff,

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then we have some audio specific stuff.

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So I think I'll maybe start with

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the podcasting stuff and then we'll move on to audio things.

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The first one is, what is an RSS feed?

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So who wants to address that one? What is it?

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Well, depends on who you ask.

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It could stand for really simple syndication or something else,

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but I go with really simple syndication.

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Yeah. So from a technical standpoint,

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the RSS feed is nothing but a text file that holds all the information that tells

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a podcatcher or a podcast app what's available and where to get it.

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That's all it is, it's just some code.

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But the magic is that that's what makes podcasting possible.

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That file or feed, if you will,

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is what makes it so that there's no magic man in the middle that could

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just decimate your show by deciding not to service it anymore.

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That file is what makes open podcasting possible.

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So Jesse, how do you explain an RSS feed to a client?

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I don't. That's fair.

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That's beautiful.

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It's just the way we distribute the files.

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Anything beyond that, they're just going to gloss over and the reality is,

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I don't really understand the nuts and bolts behind it.

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I just know it's been used to syndicate everything from audio to text to video for what, 20 years now?

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Have you ever had a client ask you or do they just-

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Actually, I haven't.

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That's awesome. I've almost never had a client that didn't ask.

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That's interesting. Maybe that's my fault.

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I'll take that. What about a podcast host?

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Now, that's one that gets confusing because it doesn't necessarily-

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This is one that Danielle brought up because there's the podcast host,

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like the person talking,

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but from a technical standpoint,

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when I think of a podcast host,

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I think of Libsyn or Blueberry or Captivate.

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Do you guys ever have to talk with clients about what that is,

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why it's important, how do you explain that to clients?

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I refer to it as a media host and if they have any kind of confusion,

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that seems to help clear it up.

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That way they know we're not talking about you,

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the podcast host of your own show versus where you store the show for distribution.

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But you see this come up a lot in podcast help forums.

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If someone will say, "Oh, I'm having this issue, blah, blah, blah."

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And someone says, "Who's your host?"

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And they say, "It's me, of course."

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And it's like, "Oh, Facepalm, that's not what I meant.

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Who's your media host? Where do you store your files?"

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So a lot of people apparently don't know what that means.

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And then they're like, "I want Apple and Spotify."

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It's like, you're still not answering the question.

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Do you ever have people ask you whether or not they can use their web host to host their files?

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Does that ever come up?

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Not for me.

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I haven't had anybody ask me specifically,

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but I have seen that question pop up online a number of times.

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I was wondering if maybe that was kind of an old-timer question,

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because I used to see that a lot.

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I don't see it as much anymore.

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I've had some people ask me, and I usually tell them from a technical standpoint,

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"Yeah, it's a file. You can do that from a...

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Is this going to work well for you and your audience? Absolutely not."

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Because that host is not set up to deliver really big files of stuff

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all at the same time when your episode drops.

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So that's how I address it.

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Patrick, glad that you were able to join us for the super incredibly fun episode

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where we talk about vocabulary.

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We talked a little bit about some of the technical stuff.

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I'd like to move on to audio things.

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So first one comes to mind when I think about audio is decibel.

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I'll let you touch this one, Jesse.

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From a technical standpoint, decibel, what is it?

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It's just a measure of loudness.

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And I understand the confusion between decibels, decibels, full-scale, luffs, RMS.

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These are all different ways of measuring loudness.

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That's why it gets so confusing.

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That's why it's nice that we've kind of settled on luffs

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as the primary way of measuring audio loudness these days.

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Let's just talk about luffs, right?

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So decibels, you said measure of loudness.

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In our world, we're not talking about speakers playing out into the world, right?

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So we're not talking about decibels of truly moving air.

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We're talking about versus how loud a system can be, right?

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So technically decibels, full-scale measurement of digital audio.

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In relation to that, luffs is similar but not the same.

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So can you break that one down for us?

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Essentially, a luff is supposed to generally equate to one decibel.

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The difference being that luffs are meant to measure loudness more

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in the way that the human ear hears it versus on a scale

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the way that an RMS or decibel meter would measure it.

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To answer the question I'm going to guess is coming next

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or to add a little more to it,

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the main difference is the way we perceive bass

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versus the way it's measured with like a decibel meter.

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If we use a decibel meter, things are going to sound louder

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or read as being louder to have more bass

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because bass has more energy to it.

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It's going to make the meters read louder.

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Luffs try to compensate for that.

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So if you have a big thumping hip-hop track,

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all of that bass that's giving it all of its power

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isn't going to make it sound...

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It's going to make it easier to measure that

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and compare it to this classical piece

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so that they're the same volume the way our ears perceive them.

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Okay.

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And since Steve said luffs take a drink, I'm going to say luffs.

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So he can take a drink.

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Here's, and I'll ask the two of you,

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how far in the weeds you want to get on this

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because this can get very mathy very quickly

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when we start talking about decibels and luffs

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and it can start to feel like high school algebra all over.

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Jesse, if I'm not wrong, there's more than one time horizon

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over which we measure luffs, right?

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So luffs is not a truly momentary measure

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of any given point in time.

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It's measured over different time breaks.

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Is that right?

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Yeah, it is a measurement of the entire file.

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You might have like your momentary luffs reading,

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but the number we're concerned with,

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it's the measurement of the entire file.

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And then to make things even more exciting,

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if we start talking about targets,

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there are different targets

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published by different people, right?

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So there's Apple Podcasts has a target

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that they've suggested.

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Spotify has a target that they've suggested.

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YouTube has a target.

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The Audio Engineering Society has a target.

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There are all these other targets out there.

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What do you share with a client as it relates to luffs,

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whether you use the word luffs

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as Steve takes another drink or not?

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I just kind of go with the Apple standard

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because trying to hit negative 14 luffs,

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that's difficult with dialogue.

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Spotify's target is definitely designed more for music.

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So I just tell them here, if you're stereo,

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aim for negative 16, if you're mono, negative 19.

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I think AES or one of those societies

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has a slightly quieter take on what they feel

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is the ideal level for dialogue,

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but I can't remember specifically what that level is.

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Yeah, the AES adjusted it about a year and a half ago,

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and they said for dialogue, let's make it minus 18.

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Let's still leave music at minus 16.

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I'm like, come on guys.

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Like every 12 months, you're gonna change this now.

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So I'm with you.

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I just tell people, like when I'm talking with a client,

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I just say, I'm gonna make it so that it sounds at the level

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where the majority of your podcast listeners

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are gonna expect it to be, which is,

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at least for the shows I've worked on,

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the Apple standard, right?

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I would argue along with you that 14, negative 14,

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what Spotify is asking for for dialogue is crazy loud.

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I can achieve it, gotta work at it, I can achieve it,

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but it is crazy, crazy loud.

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And so I would agree with you on that.

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Jennifer, do you ever have to talk loves?

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- Not with clients.

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I just say, I level it all out and they say, okay.

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And that's it.

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- So that takes us to another thing

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that we hadn't really talked about,

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but when we talk about loudness, right,

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we're talking about how loud is that overall file,

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but within a file, there can be variation, right?

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So there's another part of this

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that I think most of us tend to forget about,

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which is the loudness range.

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What's the difference between the average

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and the quietest part, or the average

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and the loudest part, if you will.

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And at least at one point, there were standards for that.

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I don't recall what they are anymore.

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But yeah, to your point, Jennifer,

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if you talk about leveling it out so that it's all right,

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ideally you're covering the loudness range and the loves.

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And you'd have to talk about, like, my clients,

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they don't care what that number is.

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- No, they don't care.

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- If I was interviewing an editor to work for me,

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I would care, because then I'm expecting them

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to meet my targets and all that stuff, but yeah.

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And Patrick says, "Negative things being louder

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makes my head explode."

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Yeah, it's that whole absolute value

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of a negative number thing.

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So bigger negative number is actually quieter,

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and smaller negative number is, yeah.

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We got into math way quicker than I thought we would,

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so sorry about that, Patrick.

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- Get away from the math, Bryan, stop.

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- And just to complicate things a little bit more,

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negative 19 is twice as loud as negative 16.

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That's why there's the difference.

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Negative 16, you've got a stereo file.

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You've got equal energy coming from left and right.

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So a monophile is half that,

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and that equates to a three-left difference.

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So three-lefts is twice the energy, twice the loudness.

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I didn't expect to get into pan law either,

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but yeah, that's a good piece to remember.

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So to Jesse's point, if you're working on a stereo file,

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minus 16 is what I would recommend,

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and minus 19 is what I would recommend for mono.

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I think that's the same as Jesse.

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Steve says, "Fletcher-Munson curve."

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I don't have a copy of that,

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but those of you out there wondering

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what the Fletcher-Munson curve is,

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it's just a measure of how we perceive

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different frequencies against each other

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at different volume levels,

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and that's part of what builds out

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the way they look at a LUFS measurement.

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The idea is that at a certain level,

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it should all sound similar.

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I've got a couple more technicals on the editing side.

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One is multitrack.

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That was the only word, so I'm gonna start with multitrack,

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and I think there's a couple directions we can go.

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Jennifer, when you think of multitrack,

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what are you thinking?

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- Well, the first thing I think, I use Adobe Audition,

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so when I think multitrack, I think nondestructive editing,

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because if you go into the waveform in Audition,

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I think it's destructive editing,

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so if I wanna be nondestructive,

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which isn't even a vocab word today, I'm making it one.

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- Should be.

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So what's nondestructive editing?

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- Nondestructive editing means that if I save it,

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I can go back and, oh, I can still fix my changes in short.

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That's the non-technical way to describe it.

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Like, if you save something in waveform,

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you close, and you come back, oh, too bad, it's gone.

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It's been destroyed.

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You can never get it back,

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but if you're in multitrack and Audition,

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and you just move things around, you can get them back.

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- So you think of that in terms of Audition

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and their editor, 'cause they do have

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a couple of different editing capabilities, right?

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- Yes, that's what comes to my mind.

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- Jesse, when you think multitrack, what are you thinking?

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- I'm thinking one of two things.

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I'm thinking either a multitrack DAW,

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which allows you to work on multiple tracks individually,

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or I think of how a roadcaster records

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their multitrack files into multi-wave

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or whatever they call it.

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Those are the two things that come up in my mind

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when I hear multitrack.

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- I think that gets us there,

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'cause we could get into this whole nuanced thing

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about multi-channel, multitrack, all that crazy stuff.

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I think the way you're describing it,

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individual files for things

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or individual tracks for things, absolutely perfect.

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I hadn't even, Jennifer, I hadn't even thought

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about the whole waveform editor thing.

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Patrick says that he even edits individual tracks

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and multitracks because he's more comfortable there.

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I'm assuming Patrick, is that an Adobe Audition thing,

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you just prefer working in the waveform editor?

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Steve says, "The way I would explain it

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to a client, a client multitrack equals layers."

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I hadn't thought about it that way.

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Interesting.

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I have to think about that one, Steve,

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'cause that's an interesting way to think about it.

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Patrick says, yes, he is talking

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about the waveform editor.

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I'm really intrigued that you're more comfortable

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in the waveform editor.

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- No, no, he said multitrack.

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- Oh, I misunderstood.

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Okay, it makes perfect sense.

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Yeah, thank you.

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- And this is why I don't work with Adobe.

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It just makes my head hurt.

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- Oh, I love Adobe.

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- Everything Adobe makes my head hurt,

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but I'm glad other people love it.

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It's just not for me.

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- That's why there's more than one DAW.

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- It is the most popular DAW out there

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when it comes to the Podcast Editors Club,

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which Steve Stewart leads.

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So no shade on them.

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I don't think that way either.

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I'm with you, Jesse.

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It kind of makes me confused.

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So let's move on to some of the other audio stuff

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that's maybe a little bit less on the audio technical side.

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So Jesse, you actually brought this one up,

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reverb versus echo.

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And I think there's some passion for you behind this topic.

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So share what you're thinking, reverb versus echo.

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- I'm sure anybody who's spent any time

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on any kind of Facebook group or podcast forum sees this.

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I'm getting a lot of echo on my recording.

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How do I fix it?

Speaker: 00:16:46

And if we're speaking a different language,

Speaker: 00:16:48

you're saying echo.

Speaker: 00:16:50

I think of echo where you hear clearly distinct

Speaker: 00:16:55

replications of the original audio.

Speaker: 00:16:58

Like you go to the Grand Canyon,

Speaker: 00:17:01

yell across and you say, echo, echo, echo.

Speaker: 00:17:04

That's not the same thing as what we hear recording

Speaker: 00:17:09

in a room.

Speaker: 00:17:10

Even if you have multiple people in that room,

Speaker: 00:17:13

that's more mic bleed, that's not really echo.

Speaker: 00:17:16

And mic bleed kind of blurs that line between reverb

Speaker: 00:17:20

and just straight up mic bleed.

Speaker: 00:17:23

But what Bryan's

Speaker: 00:17:23

alluding to was I just get really worked up

Speaker: 00:17:28

when I see a company like Riverside say something like,

Speaker: 00:17:33

our magic audio removes echo from your recordings.

Speaker: 00:17:37

I just expect companies to use the proper language.

Speaker: 00:17:40

So we try to correct people.

Speaker: 00:17:43

So instead of perpetuating this misuse of the wrong word.

Speaker: 00:17:47

- Yeah, I'm with you on that,

Speaker: 00:17:50

especially a company of that size where you know,

Speaker: 00:17:52

they have to have audio engineers working for them

Speaker: 00:17:54

to help them with all of their magic that they're doing.

Speaker: 00:17:57

It's not just a bunch of coders.

Speaker: 00:17:59

They've got some people there that know what they're doing.

Speaker: 00:18:01

That for me is one.

Speaker: 00:18:03

So we talked about echo.

Speaker: 00:18:05

What about reverb?

Speaker: 00:18:06

Just explain reverb to us.

Speaker: 00:18:08

- It's the sound of the room.

Speaker: 00:18:10

If you stand in the middle of your room and clap,

Speaker: 00:18:13

that ringing that, I don't know what else to describe it as,

Speaker: 00:18:17

but you'll hear kind of a ring or the sound lingers slightly.

Speaker: 00:18:22

That's what reverb is.

Speaker: 00:18:25

Kind of think if you go into a cave and you're talking,

Speaker: 00:18:27

or you go into your bathroom and start talking loud,

Speaker: 00:18:32

you'll hear that reverb.

Speaker: 00:18:35

That's why people love singing in the bathrooms

Speaker: 00:18:37

because they sound good because of all that natural reverb.

Speaker: 00:18:40

- I hate singing in the bathroom, but I'm with you.

Speaker: 00:18:44

Patrick says he thinks acoustics when he thinks reverb.

Speaker: 00:18:48

I think that's pretty much what you're saying, right?

Speaker: 00:18:51

The acoustics of the room that you're in.

Speaker: 00:18:54

- Yeah.

Speaker: 00:18:55

- You talked about the bleed from headphones to a microphone.

Speaker: 00:18:59

I think the other side of that that we sometimes see

Speaker: 00:19:01

are people that show up without headphones

Speaker: 00:19:04

to a recording session and thinking it's like a Zoom session,

Speaker: 00:19:08

which it may or may not be or something like that.

Speaker: 00:19:11

First off, would you call that echo?

Speaker: 00:19:13

Do you call that reverb or fold back something else?

Speaker: 00:19:16

What do you call that?

Speaker: 00:19:17

- I would call that echo because the person talks.

Speaker: 00:19:22

You hear it out your speaker.

Speaker: 00:19:24

It gets picked up by the microphone

Speaker: 00:19:26

and it'll echo it back to the other person.

Speaker: 00:19:29

That's why if someone on a call

Speaker: 00:19:31

has their echo cancellation set wrong,

Speaker: 00:19:34

you hear your voice echoed back to you.

Speaker: 00:19:37

- So let's take that a step further.

Speaker: 00:19:39

And let's say that I'm in a Facebook group

Speaker: 00:19:41

and I say to you,

Speaker: 00:19:42

how do I get rid of my guests echo in my recording?

Speaker: 00:19:45

What would you say?

Speaker: 00:19:46

- I would just ask, what do you mean by echo?

Speaker: 00:19:50

Because I can't help without knowing

Speaker: 00:19:52

if we're talking about echo or reverb.

Speaker: 00:19:55

- 'Cause I was immediately assume they're meaning reverb

Speaker: 00:19:58

because that's what they usually mean.

Speaker: 00:20:01

- Okay.

Speaker: 00:20:02

And if through that conversation, we said,

Speaker: 00:20:04

okay, I'm talking about my guests audio,

Speaker: 00:20:06

it's being picked up by the speaker.

Speaker: 00:20:09

For some reason, it seems to be echoing in the recording.

Speaker: 00:20:11

It's on my side of the track too, what's going on?

Speaker: 00:20:13

How would I fix that?

Speaker: 00:20:15

- It depends if it's,

Speaker: 00:20:17

there's two different types of that kind of echo

Speaker: 00:20:19

that I've run into.

Speaker: 00:20:21

You have the echo that's being picked up by the mic

Speaker: 00:20:24

and the levels are going to be quieter

Speaker: 00:20:28

than the other person's direct audio.

Speaker: 00:20:31

The other issue I've run into is people using USB mics

Speaker: 00:20:36

with headphones plugged right in.

Speaker: 00:20:38

- Oh, right, yeah.

Speaker: 00:20:39

- There've been a few times where Riverside

Speaker: 00:20:40

can't split that signal correctly.

Speaker: 00:20:43

So it sends the headphone feed and the microphone feed

Speaker: 00:20:46

to the same track.

Speaker: 00:20:48

So your audio has everything going to the headphones

Speaker: 00:20:52

embedded into it.

Speaker: 00:20:54

- Which is just a delightful edit, isn't it?

Speaker: 00:20:56

- Yeah.

Speaker: 00:20:57

- Where I was headed was,

Speaker: 00:20:59

if I found out somebody was getting guest audio

Speaker: 00:21:01

back in their thing, my first question would be,

Speaker: 00:21:04

are you wearing headphones?

Speaker: 00:21:06

If they are, then I think we go immediately

Speaker: 00:21:07

to what you're talking about, right?

Speaker: 00:21:09

How loud are your headphones?

Speaker: 00:21:11

Are you using a USB microphone or is there something

Speaker: 00:21:13

where that audio could be transmitted into the,

Speaker: 00:21:16

like I've seen some of those earbuds

Speaker: 00:21:19

where they've got the built-in microphone

Speaker: 00:21:20

and you get the remote guest in that microphone

Speaker: 00:21:23

because it's literally attached.

Speaker: 00:21:25

But yeah, I was going for headphones, just wear 'em.

Speaker: 00:21:28

- What benefits do you share with clients?

Speaker: 00:21:31

First off, do you tell clients they need to wear headphones?

Speaker: 00:21:33

And if so, why?

Speaker: 00:21:35

- I absolutely tell them to wear headphones.

Speaker: 00:21:38

There's lots of benefits, but one of them is,

Speaker: 00:21:42

so that the sound doesn't count,

Speaker: 00:21:43

I'll have the speaker right back into the mic,

Speaker: 00:21:44

but the other one's monitoring.

Speaker: 00:21:47

- Hear yourself and then also don't pick it up.

Speaker: 00:21:49

Steve has a question.

Speaker: 00:21:50

You guys wanna jump into Steve's question?

Speaker: 00:21:52

- Yeah, let's do it.

Speaker: 00:21:53

- This is a great one.

Speaker: 00:21:54

He says, so we were talking about echo and reverb

Speaker: 00:21:57

and all that stuff.

Speaker: 00:21:58

He says he thinks that he's been calling cross talk

Speaker: 00:22:00

incorrectly, so could we please cover that?

Speaker: 00:22:03

I have some thoughts on cross talk.

Speaker: 00:22:05

- What's cross talk?

Speaker: 00:22:07

- So in my mind-

Speaker: 00:22:10

- I think it's cross talk.

Speaker: 00:22:12

- You think it's cross talk?

Speaker: 00:22:13

- Are we talking about cross talk?

Speaker: 00:22:15

- Stepping on top of each other?

Speaker: 00:22:16

- Yeah.

Speaker: 00:22:17

- I'm not sure what that would be called.

Speaker: 00:22:19

I call that two people talking at the same time.

Speaker: 00:22:21

'Cause I don't know what the right-

Speaker: 00:22:23

- I call that cross talk.

Speaker: 00:22:25

- Cross talk?

Speaker: 00:22:26

- Yeah. - Yep.

Speaker: 00:22:27

- Okay, so I was thinking of cross talk in terms of

Speaker: 00:22:30

in old recording consoles where they didn't have

Speaker: 00:22:33

great separation between channels,

Speaker: 00:22:35

you would sometimes get audio from one channel

Speaker: 00:22:37

being picked up by another channel.

Speaker: 00:22:39

I thought that was cross talk.

Speaker: 00:22:40

Maybe I'm wrong on that.

Speaker: 00:22:42

- I think those are both valid uses of cross talk.

Speaker: 00:22:45

- Okay, I called it people talking at the same time

Speaker: 00:22:48

'cause I didn't wanna use the wrong words

Speaker: 00:22:49

and I'm gonna call it cross talk.

Speaker: 00:22:51

I mean, if Patrick and Steve and Jesse and Jennifer

Speaker: 00:22:55

say it's right, then it has to be.

Speaker: 00:22:56

So now I can do it.

Speaker: 00:22:58

If Daniel had been here,

Speaker: 00:22:58

he could have been the dissenting opinion.

Speaker: 00:23:00

(laughing)

Speaker: 00:23:02

Sorry, Daniel, you missed out.

Speaker: 00:23:04

That's a good one.

Speaker: 00:23:05

Thank you, Steve, for asking.

Speaker: 00:23:06

Is that what you're calling cross talk?

Speaker: 00:23:07

Is it when people step on each other while they're talking

Speaker: 00:23:10

or were you talking about it as something else?

Speaker: 00:23:12

- While we wait for his answer,

Speaker: 00:23:14

going back to the headphone thing,

Speaker: 00:23:16

what I tell clients is using headphones

Speaker: 00:23:19

is the most important thing to sounding good

Speaker: 00:23:23

because you cannot fix echo cancellation.

Speaker: 00:23:26

- Totally.

Speaker: 00:23:27

You can fix some reverb, right?

Speaker: 00:23:29

Or the reflections from the room.

Speaker: 00:23:31

Patrick had commented about DX revive.

Speaker: 00:23:34

That's one of the tools I sometimes use.

Speaker: 00:23:35

I think Jesse and I both use Super Tone Clear as well.

Speaker: 00:23:38

There are a ton of tools out there for that kind of thing.

Speaker: 00:23:42

Nothing that I've found will fix

Speaker: 00:23:44

the lack of echo cancellation.

Speaker: 00:23:46

Best I've ever done is trying to cut it out manually

Speaker: 00:23:49

and that is a fool's errand.

Speaker: 00:23:50

It's hours of work for terrible results.

Speaker: 00:23:53

- Patrick says that they have to have headphones or earbuds

Speaker: 00:23:56

or they make them reschedule.

Speaker: 00:23:57

That's perfect.

Speaker: 00:23:58

Did I jump on top of you, Jennifer?

Speaker: 00:24:00

- Yeah. - Was there something you were--

Speaker: 00:24:01

- Yeah, I was popping up Steve's.

Speaker: 00:24:03

Cross talk has two definitions like podcast host.

Speaker: 00:24:06

So yes, talking at the same time is how he defines it.

Speaker: 00:24:09

- Perfect.

Speaker: 00:24:10

So Jesse, this is one that you had brought up

Speaker: 00:24:13

before we started recording, overmodulation.

Speaker: 00:24:16

Is it Riverside that sometimes uses

Speaker: 00:24:18

that word in their stuff?

Speaker: 00:24:20

- I'm not sure who uses it.

Speaker: 00:24:22

I just, I see it off and on.

Speaker: 00:24:24

And in strict audio terms like what we are doing,

Speaker: 00:24:28

recording and editing dialogue,

Speaker: 00:24:31

I'm not familiar with anything that's called overmodulation.

Speaker: 00:24:36

In music, you have modulation,

Speaker: 00:24:38

which is like chorus or delay effects.

Speaker: 00:24:41

But I have no clue what overmodulation is,

Speaker: 00:24:45

which means if somebody's saying that or asking about it,

Speaker: 00:24:49

I have no way of helping them.

Speaker: 00:24:51

What I've found is, at least in the world of telecom,

Speaker: 00:24:55

it was if the signal exceeds what's required for 100%.

Speaker: 00:25:00

So I think that's what we would refer to as,

Speaker: 00:25:02

within the audio world, as what would lead to clipping.

Speaker: 00:25:06

It's going over that zero into a positive value.

Speaker: 00:25:09

It's now louder than 100%.

Speaker: 00:25:11

That's how I would understand it.

Speaker: 00:25:13

That doesn't mean I'm right,

Speaker: 00:25:14

but that's how I would think that.

Speaker: 00:25:16

Yeah, Patrick says, classical musician thinks

Speaker: 00:25:19

that modulation is a key change.

Speaker: 00:25:20

It took a bit for me to get there as well,

Speaker: 00:25:22

'cause I always thought of modulation as that key change.

Speaker: 00:25:25

And I guess overmodulation is if you do two

Speaker: 00:25:27

at the same time, I don't know.

Speaker: 00:25:29

I think it's when recording too hot, you get clipping,

Speaker: 00:25:32

or if you process too hard, you get that distortion.

Speaker: 00:25:35

I think that's what it is.

Speaker: 00:25:37

If I'm wrong, somebody please tell me,

Speaker: 00:25:38

'cause that's how I'm gonna use it from now on

Speaker: 00:25:40

until I find out I'm wrong.

Speaker: 00:25:42

Jennifer, this one was yours, engineering versus editing.

Speaker: 00:25:45

- Engineering versus editing.

Speaker: 00:25:48

- Let's go one further.

Speaker: 00:25:49

- Engineering versus editing versus producing.

Speaker: 00:25:51

- Oh yeah, you added the producing,

Speaker: 00:25:53

which is like, what the heck?

Speaker: 00:25:55

I mean, people come and they're like,

Speaker: 00:25:56

I need a podcast producer.

Speaker: 00:25:58

I'm like, okay, what do you need someone to do for you?

Speaker: 00:26:00

Because we probably have different definitions

Speaker: 00:26:03

of these terms.

Speaker: 00:26:04

But now that I have a team of editors,

Speaker: 00:26:08

I do all the engineering,

Speaker: 00:26:10

and I pass the editing off to them.

Speaker: 00:26:12

So the engineering is more like the sound quality,

Speaker: 00:26:16

whereas the editing is the content.

Speaker: 00:26:18

It's how I look at it.

Speaker: 00:26:20

- How about you, Jesse?

Speaker: 00:26:22

- In my world, I look at engineering as,

Speaker: 00:26:25

it's what happens up to the end of the recording.

Speaker: 00:26:29

Once the recording's done, you move into post-production,

Speaker: 00:26:32

whether you call that editing or mixing, whatever it is.

Speaker: 00:26:37

To me, engineering is everything you do

Speaker: 00:26:41

to get a good recording.

Speaker: 00:26:43

Once the recording process is done,

Speaker: 00:26:45

the engineer's job is done.

Speaker: 00:26:46

You hand it off to the editor,

Speaker: 00:26:49

whoever you want to call them.

Speaker: 00:26:51

Sometimes it's the producer, sometimes it's the editor,

Speaker: 00:26:54

sometimes it's someone else.

Speaker: 00:26:57

I'm sure there's other names out there.

Speaker: 00:27:00

- For better or worse, the way I look at it,

Speaker: 00:27:02

and we're probably not all gonna agree here today,

Speaker: 00:27:04

and that's okay, 'cause we're just talking about these.

Speaker: 00:27:06

As long as we can walk out and agree

Speaker: 00:27:08

that Bryan was right when we're done, we're fine.

Speaker: 00:27:11

I think of the producer as the person

Speaker: 00:27:12

who's responsible for the show,

Speaker: 00:27:15

that may or may not be the host,

Speaker: 00:27:17

or it may or may not be somebody

Speaker: 00:27:18

that comes alongside them to help provide a content schedule,

Speaker: 00:27:21

keep track of any marketing, that kind of stuff.

Speaker: 00:27:24

That's what I think of in terms of a show producer.

Speaker: 00:27:27

When I think of editing,

Speaker: 00:27:29

I think of two different kinds of editing.

Speaker: 00:27:32

One is what I'll call the story editor.

Speaker: 00:27:34

So if you've got something

Speaker: 00:27:35

where you're putting together a story,

Speaker: 00:27:38

or you're going through and determining

Speaker: 00:27:40

which sections of content need to come out,

Speaker: 00:27:42

or which sections need to be pulled out

Speaker: 00:27:44

to be put into something,

Speaker: 00:27:45

that's what I think of in terms of a story editor

Speaker: 00:27:47

potentially rearranging things

Speaker: 00:27:49

like you might do for a newscast,

Speaker: 00:27:51

where you've got a person on the street

Speaker: 00:27:53

with a microphone capturing 30-second clips,

Speaker: 00:27:55

and you're gonna put all those together,

Speaker: 00:27:57

or you're going out and you're capturing,

Speaker: 00:27:59

over the period of X number of months or an hour,

Speaker: 00:28:02

an interview with somebody,

Speaker: 00:28:03

and then you're going to pull out 15 minutes out of that

Speaker: 00:28:06

to make that into something.

Speaker: 00:28:07

I think of that as a story editor.

Speaker: 00:28:08

They're responsible for the arc of the story.

Speaker: 00:28:11

Most of what I do is the technical editing,

Speaker: 00:28:13

and most of my editing is linear.

Speaker: 00:28:15

I'm starting at the beginning.

Speaker: 00:28:16

I have an interview.

Speaker: 00:28:17

I cut out the distractions.

Speaker: 00:28:19

I might cut out a sentence or two here,

Speaker: 00:28:22

but I'm not changing the content.

Speaker: 00:28:23

I'm not changing the story arc.

Speaker: 00:28:25

I'm not doing any of that.

Speaker: 00:28:27

It's just removing distractions and mistakes.

Speaker: 00:28:30

Jesse, to your point,

Speaker: 00:28:31

I don't necessarily think of engineering

Speaker: 00:28:34

as only the recording engineer side of it.

Speaker: 00:28:36

I also think of it as potentially a mix engineer.

Speaker: 00:28:40

I realize that we're not mixing a professional record here,

Speaker: 00:28:43

but that EQ, the compression, that kind of stuff,

Speaker: 00:28:45

audio repair, I tend to think of that a little bit more

Speaker: 00:28:48

in the engineering than the editing side,

Speaker: 00:28:50

but I'm not gonna die on that hill either,

Speaker: 00:28:53

and I definitely see everything on the recording side

Speaker: 00:28:55

in terms of quality audio as engineering.

Speaker: 00:28:59

Hopefully that hasn't confused everybody too much.

Speaker: 00:29:02

Steve says that he thinks of editing as cutting

Speaker: 00:29:05

and engineering as headphones.

Speaker: 00:29:08

I'm assuming making it sound good.

Speaker: 00:29:10

I hope that's what that was.

Speaker: 00:29:12

Patrick says that he doesn't feel cool enough

Speaker: 00:29:14

to call himself an engineer.

Speaker: 00:29:16

I don't know, should we take a vote?

Speaker: 00:29:18

Should we let Patrick call himself an engineer?

Speaker: 00:29:19

Is that okay?

Speaker: 00:29:20

All in favor say aye.

Speaker: 00:29:22

- Sure. - I think so.

Speaker: 00:29:23

- The motion carries.

Speaker: 00:29:24

Patrick, you can call yourself an engineer

Speaker: 00:29:26

by the authority of the three of us.

Speaker: 00:29:28

- There you go.

Speaker: 00:29:29

- We have nothing.

Speaker: 00:29:30

We kind of blew through that.

Speaker: 00:29:31

Is there anything we missed?

Speaker: 00:29:33

- Well, I'll just say that I joined

Speaker: 00:29:35

the Chris Curran's Podcast Engineering School

Speaker: 00:29:37

'cause I feel like that's where I'm weak on.

Speaker: 00:29:39

I think I know all about editing now.

Speaker: 00:29:42

I've been doing it for eight years.

Speaker: 00:29:43

I got that.

Speaker: 00:29:44

But the engineering part, a little fuzzy.

Speaker: 00:29:46

Gotta learn more.

Speaker: 00:29:48

- Yeah, and you know, as I think about that,

Speaker: 00:29:51

there's definitely an element of critical listening

Speaker: 00:29:53

that comes with engineering in a way that I didn't do

Speaker: 00:29:56

when I was just editing.

Speaker: 00:29:58

Jesse, you kind of came from that engineering background

Speaker: 00:30:01

in terms of working on music quite a bit.

Speaker: 00:30:03

Did you find that it changed

Speaker: 00:30:04

when you started engineering or not?

Speaker: 00:30:08

- Did what change?

Speaker: 00:30:09

- The way you listen.

Speaker: 00:30:11

- Yeah, the more, everything we do

Speaker: 00:30:14

when we're working with audio, we're training our ears.

Speaker: 00:30:19

So the more time we spend editing, the more time,

Speaker: 00:30:22

I mean, what I've found has helped me the most

Speaker: 00:30:24

has been teaching and working with people.

Speaker: 00:30:28

Being able to listen to their stuff, teach them,

Speaker: 00:30:31

it helps you really focus on your listening skills

Speaker: 00:30:35

because you're not bothered with trying

Speaker: 00:30:37

to get this client project done

Speaker: 00:30:39

so I can get onto the next one.

Speaker: 00:30:41

You're just focused on listening

Speaker: 00:30:44

and that makes a huge difference

Speaker: 00:30:46

in how quickly you start to develop that ear.

Speaker: 00:30:49

Kind of to your point

Speaker: 00:30:50

about the different types of engineering,

Speaker: 00:30:52

I would classify kind of the mix engineer

Speaker: 00:30:56

as part of the post-production process.

Speaker: 00:30:59

I'd make a distinction between the recording engineer

Speaker: 00:31:02

and the mixing engineer.

Speaker: 00:31:04

- That's fair, yeah.

Speaker: 00:31:06

- And like you were talking about, the mix engineer,

Speaker: 00:31:09

they're going to be doing the cleanup,

Speaker: 00:31:12

doing everything kind of like Steve's making it sound good.

Speaker: 00:31:16

That's what you're doing as the mix engineer.

Speaker: 00:31:19

- So to your point, you mentioned listening differently

Speaker: 00:31:22

and when you're not focused

Speaker: 00:31:23

on having to churn out client projects,

Speaker: 00:31:25

one of the things that I've noticed is it seems like my ears,

Speaker: 00:31:30

in my opinion, tend to make the most progress

Speaker: 00:31:34

when I'm trying to help develop an EQ

Speaker: 00:31:36

and compression template for somebody.

Speaker: 00:31:39

So that they've got sort of a processing baseline

Speaker: 00:31:41

to start from because that's when I really start to listen

Speaker: 00:31:44

for exactly where are those resonances

Speaker: 00:31:47

that the room or the microphone or their voice is causing.

Speaker: 00:31:50

And then how can we address those

Speaker: 00:31:52

in a way that keeps their voice natural

Speaker: 00:31:54

but maybe reduces some of those things

Speaker: 00:31:56

that stand out a little bit.

Speaker: 00:31:57

So I definitely see that in some of the work

Speaker: 00:32:00

that I've done as well.

Speaker: 00:32:01

Another place I've seen that is

Speaker: 00:32:03

if somebody wants a little bit of help

Speaker: 00:32:04

trying to treat their room, doing it long distance,

Speaker: 00:32:07

I can't walk through the room and go,

Speaker: 00:32:09

this is what I hear, this is what.

Speaker: 00:32:10

So you end up with your headphones on or your speakers

Speaker: 00:32:13

listening very carefully to like five or six different

Speaker: 00:32:17

recordings that they made and going, okay,

Speaker: 00:32:19

sounds like I'm getting something here,

Speaker: 00:32:21

it sounds like I'm getting something here,

Speaker: 00:32:22

tell me more about the space.

Speaker: 00:32:24

Typically I'll hear, there'll be some kind of resonance,

Speaker: 00:32:27

either typically it's a multiple of like 100 or 125 hertz,

Speaker: 00:32:30

depending on the size of the room.

Speaker: 00:32:32

Then you go, okay, where does that seem to be hitting

Speaker: 00:32:34

and how can we treat it?

Speaker: 00:32:36

That to me has been really valuable, but it's hard work.

Speaker: 00:32:40

Do you do anything else, Jesse, to train your ears?

Speaker: 00:32:43

- Just listen to as much stuff as I can and practice.

Speaker: 00:32:49

I really can't stress enough how important

Speaker: 00:32:51

setting aside time to practice is,

Speaker: 00:32:54

even if you've been doing it for a while.

Speaker: 00:32:57

Nothing speeds up your process and helps you see new things,

Speaker: 00:33:02

like setting aside that time when you don't have

Speaker: 00:33:05

any external pressures on you.

Speaker: 00:33:07

You're not trying to get stuff done,

Speaker: 00:33:09

you don't have to worry about a client, deadlines,

Speaker: 00:33:12

anything like that.

Speaker: 00:33:13

You can just focus on listening and whatever skill it is

Speaker: 00:33:18

you've set aside that time to work on.

Speaker: 00:33:21

- Here's another fun one.

Speaker: 00:33:22

We already kind of touched on it,

Speaker: 00:33:23

but soundproofing versus acoustic treatment.

Speaker: 00:33:27

So if I said, I need to soundproof my room,

Speaker: 00:33:29

I've got these foam wedges that I picked up from a company,

Speaker: 00:33:34

I need to stop my neighbor's lawnmower coming through,

Speaker: 00:33:37

what would you tell me?

Speaker: 00:33:39

- Well, when I had my studio back in 2019,

Speaker: 00:33:43

I tried to make that distinguish.

Speaker: 00:33:45

I'm like, this is a sound-treated space.

Speaker: 00:33:47

This is not a soundproof space.

Speaker: 00:33:51

There is a difference. (laughs)

Speaker: 00:33:54

- And what's the difference?

Speaker: 00:33:55

- Well, sound can get through just the sound-treated space.

Speaker: 00:33:59

I mean, it can come in, but with the acoustic treatment,

Speaker: 00:34:03

it'll help with the resonances

Speaker: 00:34:05

and the sound that's initiated within the room,

Speaker: 00:34:08

but it's not necessarily gonna keep out stuff

Speaker: 00:34:11

coming from the outside.

Speaker: 00:34:13

- Jesse, how about you?

Speaker: 00:34:15

- I try to describe it to clients as soundproof

Speaker: 00:34:19

keeps sound from inside your room from going out

Speaker: 00:34:24

and outside sound from coming in.

Speaker: 00:34:26

Acoustic treatment, sound treatment is designed

Speaker: 00:34:29

to make the sound of your room more appealing.

Speaker: 00:34:32

It's not going to stop your dog barking

Speaker: 00:34:35

or the landscapers outside,

Speaker: 00:34:38

but it's going to make it so you don't have

Speaker: 00:34:40

a lot of those room resonances.

Speaker: 00:34:43

You see all these panels back here.

Speaker: 00:34:45

I've sound-treated my room,

Speaker: 00:34:47

but I still hear all sorts of sounds.

Speaker: 00:34:49

If my cat's outside playing, banging against the door,

Speaker: 00:34:52

you're all going to hear that.

Speaker: 00:34:54

Soundproofing is a very expensive endeavor.

Speaker: 00:34:57

You basically have to build your room specifically for that,

Speaker: 00:35:01

or you're not going to get there.

Speaker: 00:35:03

- And for most podcasters,

Speaker: 00:35:05

do you think soundproofing is even relevant?

Speaker: 00:35:08

- It's not necessary.

Speaker: 00:35:10

If you've got a good mic,

Speaker: 00:35:12

I mean, I record people in their living rooms, wherever,

Speaker: 00:35:17

all you need is a decent dynamic mic that's positioned well,

Speaker: 00:35:22

and all of that other stuff doesn't really matter.

Speaker: 00:35:26

You might have a little reverb you have to deal with.

Speaker: 00:35:29

You might have some room resonances,

Speaker: 00:35:31

but the bass quality is still going to be there.

Speaker: 00:35:36

- I would agree with that.

Speaker: 00:35:37

Steve says that soundproofing and sound treatment to him

Speaker: 00:35:40

are as different and confusing as tornado warning

Speaker: 00:35:43

and tornado watch.

Speaker: 00:35:44

I would say that they definitely confused me early on.

Speaker: 00:35:49

I think, yeah, I mean, I've invested most of my time

Speaker: 00:35:52

and money in this room on the treatment, right?

Speaker: 00:35:56

Reducing the resonances,

Speaker: 00:35:57

it's essentially a square room,

Speaker: 00:35:59

it's terrible for recording, so I had to treat it, right?

Speaker: 00:36:03

But it's the best room in the house for that.

Speaker: 00:36:05

Patrick says that a blanket is magic.

Speaker: 00:36:08

It definitely has been for me

Speaker: 00:36:10

before I had the treatments I have.

Speaker: 00:36:11

I had a bunch of moving blankets hung up.

Speaker: 00:36:13

They were ugly, they looked terrible,

Speaker: 00:36:16

but they sounded good, and that's what I did with those.

Speaker: 00:36:20

Steve says that Jesse reminded you of terms that he uses

Speaker: 00:36:23

with clients, dynamics versus condenser mics.

Speaker: 00:36:26

I didn't even think about covering that.

Speaker: 00:36:28

Do you guys wanna talk about that?

Speaker: 00:36:29

- Yeah, let's talk about that.

Speaker: 00:36:31

- Let me add one more thing about the acoustic

Speaker: 00:36:34

and your question.

Speaker: 00:36:35

I think that if you're doing podcasts

Speaker: 00:36:39

and you've been doing it for a while,

Speaker: 00:36:41

getting sound treatment is the best investment you can make,

Speaker: 00:36:45

but it's absolutely not necessary.

Speaker: 00:36:47

But if you're wanting to invest in getting better sound

Speaker: 00:36:51

before getting a RODECaster or a 7B,

Speaker: 00:36:55

invest that money into your sound treatment,

Speaker: 00:36:58

that will make a much bigger difference

Speaker: 00:37:00

than the mic or interface that you're using.

Speaker: 00:37:03

- I would agree wholeheartedly.

Speaker: 00:37:05

I don't wanna make a blanket statement

Speaker: 00:37:07

because of course there are outliers, there are exceptions.

Speaker: 00:37:10

But if somebody came to me with $1,000 and said,

Speaker: 00:37:14

should I buy a RODECaster and a 7B,

Speaker: 00:37:16

depending on the space they were in,

Speaker: 00:37:18

I might say, actually, can you get a Samson Q2U

Speaker: 00:37:21

or an ATR2100X for $100 and spend the other 800 on treatment

Speaker: 00:37:26

because you'll probably get more out of that

Speaker: 00:37:29

than the fancy microphone in the RODECaster.

Speaker: 00:37:32

Just my opinion.

Speaker: 00:37:33

- I'd agree.

Speaker: 00:37:34

- We're agreeing with each other.

Speaker: 00:37:36

It was bound to happen eventually.

Speaker: 00:37:38

Patrick also says that he has guests

Speaker: 00:37:40

put a blanket on their lap.

Speaker: 00:37:41

I hadn't thought about that.

Speaker: 00:37:43

I have put a blanket on my desk.

Speaker: 00:37:45

I've hidden under a blanket.

Speaker: 00:37:46

I've made a pillow fort.

Speaker: 00:37:47

I've never put a blanket on my lap.

Speaker: 00:37:49

That's an interesting one.

Speaker: 00:37:50

- Patrick, I'd like to know a little bit more

Speaker: 00:37:52

about the reasoning behind that.

Speaker: 00:37:55

Are these laps affecting the acoustics?

Speaker: 00:37:58

I'm just curious on that one.

Speaker: 00:38:00

The desk, I understand.

Speaker: 00:38:02

- While Patrick's doing that,

Speaker: 00:38:04

let's talk about dynamics versus condensers.

Speaker: 00:38:06

Let's put it in the context of having a conversation

Speaker: 00:38:09

with a client who is not an audio person

Speaker: 00:38:12

and telling them what's the difference

Speaker: 00:38:14

and why should they care.

Speaker: 00:38:15

- I describe a condenser as,

Speaker: 00:38:17

it's basically like a magnifying glass.

Speaker: 00:38:20

You look throughout your room.

Speaker: 00:38:21

It's going to magnify every imperfection

Speaker: 00:38:24

from your acoustics to sounds inside your room,

Speaker: 00:38:27

even outside the room.

Speaker: 00:38:29

You might hear the dog barking across the house

Speaker: 00:38:31

because they're so sensitive.

Speaker: 00:38:34

Dynamics, people seem to think that they're sound canceling

Speaker: 00:38:39

or something like that.

Speaker: 00:38:41

They're just less sensitive.

Speaker: 00:38:43

So you're still going to pick up loud sounds in your room.

Speaker: 00:38:47

If your dog's barking next to you,

Speaker: 00:38:48

it's still going to pick that up,

Speaker: 00:38:50

but you're going to be able to minimize

Speaker: 00:38:54

a lot of the outside sound because it's not as sensitive.

Speaker: 00:38:58

When you get right up on the mic,

Speaker: 00:39:00

you have so much of your voice.

Speaker: 00:39:02

All of the background sound is much quieter in relation.

Speaker: 00:39:06

- The one thing that I would add is generally,

Speaker: 00:39:09

I recommend dynamic microphones for people,

Speaker: 00:39:12

especially people who say, "I'm about to start my show.

Speaker: 00:39:15

What microphone should I get?"

Speaker: 00:39:16

And that is the totality of the focus

Speaker: 00:39:18

they've put on the question

Speaker: 00:39:20

because it's generally the safer bet.

Speaker: 00:39:23

But I also want to point out

Speaker: 00:39:24

that condenser microphones can work.

Speaker: 00:39:28

I'm on one and Jesse's on one too.

Speaker: 00:39:31

The key is both of us have treated our spaces

Speaker: 00:39:34

to work for the microphones that we're using.

Speaker: 00:39:37

So if I was sitting in my kitchen right now

Speaker: 00:39:39

with this microphone, it would sound abysmal.

Speaker: 00:39:42

Actually in my kitchen, even a dynamic microphone

Speaker: 00:39:45

might sound really bad because it's hard floors, hard walls.

Speaker: 00:39:47

But that notwithstanding, this microphone would be terrible.

Speaker: 00:39:50

And so that's why I typically recommend dynamics,

Speaker: 00:39:53

even though I use a condenser.

Speaker: 00:39:55

Because I spent the money we talked about

Speaker: 00:39:57

making my space work.

Speaker: 00:39:59

Patrick has his answer, says, "usually the desk."

Speaker: 00:40:03

So this is in reference to a blanket on the lap.

Speaker: 00:40:05

Usually on the desk, sometimes in a lap

Speaker: 00:40:07

if the desk is not possible.

Speaker: 00:40:08

And also maybe they're cold, I like that one.

Speaker: 00:40:11

And then have another host who put two or three dog toys

Speaker: 00:40:14

on the test and it makes a big difference.

Speaker: 00:40:16

I'm assuming those are some kind of soft dog toys

Speaker: 00:40:18

that are absorbing sound.

Speaker: 00:40:20

And I can totally see how that would work.

Speaker: 00:40:23

Did we need to hit anything more on dynamics and condensers?

Speaker: 00:40:25

I think we covered that one.

Speaker: 00:40:27

- Well, I'll just give kind of an A side.

Speaker: 00:40:29

The reason I'm on a condenser mic

Speaker: 00:40:31

is dynamic mics need a lot of gain.

Speaker: 00:40:35

I have a quiet voice.

Speaker: 00:40:36

So using an RE20, I needed to use so much gain

Speaker: 00:40:41

that I had a ton of noise in my recordings.

Speaker: 00:40:46

So I needed a more sensitive mic.

Speaker: 00:40:48

I don't know how well it translates,

Speaker: 00:40:50

but I'm still about an inch and a half away from this mic

Speaker: 00:40:53

and have a ton of gain added digitally through my interface

Speaker: 00:40:57

to have something you guys can all hear.

Speaker: 00:41:00

So I'm using that sensitivity to my advantage

Speaker: 00:41:05

so I don't have to spend as much time cleaning up my audio.

Speaker: 00:41:08

But like you said, I've spent the money

Speaker: 00:41:11

on the sound treatment.

Speaker: 00:41:13

So I have that luxury of being able to choose

Speaker: 00:41:16

between the two.

Speaker: 00:41:17

- Yeah.

Speaker: 00:41:19

So we have, I think, three more to go.

Speaker: 00:41:22

And these are not audio.

Speaker: 00:41:25

These are back to podcast specific stuff,

Speaker: 00:41:27

but these are about episodes.

Speaker: 00:41:30

So the first one is cold open.

Speaker: 00:41:34

What's a cold open?

Speaker: 00:41:35

Jennifer?

Speaker: 00:41:36

- You just start, jump right in.

Speaker: 00:41:40

- Okay.

Speaker: 00:41:41

Jesse, what do you think of?

Speaker: 00:41:43

- First thing that pops into my mind is Saturday Night Live.

Speaker: 00:41:46

They start with a cold open.

Speaker: 00:41:48

Something to get you into things.

Speaker: 00:41:52

And to me, I don't like that they've started using that term

Speaker: 00:41:56

in podcasts where a lot of times they call a cold open,

Speaker: 00:42:00

it's a clip from later in the show.

Speaker: 00:42:03

To me, that's more of a preview or something to hook you in

Speaker: 00:42:08

as opposed to a cold open.

Speaker: 00:42:09

But people use terms interchangeably,

Speaker: 00:42:12

so they might be calling it a cold open

Speaker: 00:42:15

and it's a true cold open.

Speaker: 00:42:16

I don't know.

Speaker: 00:42:18

- That's interesting.

Speaker: 00:42:19

I had typically heard cold open in terms of those clips,

Speaker: 00:42:23

although I recognize the Saturday Night Live thing as well.

Speaker: 00:42:26

I think for me, a cold open done well is a hook.

Speaker: 00:42:31

And whether that hook is, well, I would say is a hook

Speaker: 00:42:35

that isn't the introduction to the show.

Speaker: 00:42:37

So if you're starting with, on this episode,

Speaker: 00:42:41

we're gonna talk about five things

Speaker: 00:42:42

that will make you rich in 23 minutes.

Speaker: 00:42:44

I'm Bryan, stick around for the next 20 minutes.

Speaker: 00:42:47

To me, that's not a cold open.

Speaker: 00:42:48

That's an introduction or a pre-introduction,

Speaker: 00:42:50

but something that's, let's call it an ex-context clip.

Speaker: 00:42:55

So as you were talking about a section from the episode

Speaker: 00:43:00

with no context setting it up,

Speaker: 00:43:02

a quote or something like that,

Speaker: 00:43:03

I would think of that as a cold open.

Speaker: 00:43:06

Honestly, in many cases, I would think of that

Speaker: 00:43:07

as a cold open that's done poorly.

Speaker: 00:43:11

Patrick says he calls that a teaser.

Speaker: 00:43:13

I'm guessing, Patrick, you're talking about

Speaker: 00:43:15

the Saturday Night Live version of a cold open

Speaker: 00:43:17

or the little preview of the episode.

Speaker: 00:43:20

If you wanna share a little bit more about that,

Speaker: 00:43:22

I'd love to hear more about your thoughts

Speaker: 00:43:23

'cause this is one that I'm not super comfortable

Speaker: 00:43:26

with myself.

Speaker: 00:43:27

- I like his second comment about a cold open is no intro.

Speaker: 00:43:32

I would take that as more of the Saturday Night Live thing

Speaker: 00:43:35

or you just start the show, you don't have an intro,

Speaker: 00:43:38

you don't have the teaser hook, whatever you wanna call it.

Speaker: 00:43:41

And I think he was saying the clip, whatever,

Speaker: 00:43:45

he would call that a teaser and I like his definitions.

Speaker: 00:43:50

- Okay, tonight's episode, we almost had a cold open, right?

Speaker: 00:43:53

'Cause I forgot the music.

Speaker: 00:43:55

- Yeah, that's what it was.

Speaker: 00:43:58

- Steve says he had a client with a TV background

Speaker: 00:44:00

and she considered a cold open

Speaker: 00:44:02

as the guest highlight snippet or teaser.

Speaker: 00:44:04

I can totally go with that.

Speaker: 00:44:06

What about dynamic insertion?

Speaker: 00:44:09

- I'm still learning about dynamic insertion.

Speaker: 00:44:12

So I'm gonna punt.

Speaker: 00:44:14

- Jesse, do you have a perspective on it?

Speaker: 00:44:16

I've got mine, but.

Speaker: 00:44:17

- I have a little bit of a perspective

Speaker: 00:44:19

and I think podcasters get too hung up

Speaker: 00:44:23

on that being something that can only be used for ads.

Speaker: 00:44:26

If you look at it from a bigger picture thing,

Speaker: 00:44:31

there's so much power to those to use it

Speaker: 00:44:33

to promote your own things,

Speaker: 00:44:35

whether it's promoting previous episodes,

Speaker: 00:44:38

if you're someone who offers services,

Speaker: 00:44:41

you can use those to promote your services,

Speaker: 00:44:45

not just as a means for monetizing with advertisers.

Speaker: 00:44:49

- Yeah, so in my mind,

Speaker: 00:44:51

there's two kinds of dynamic insertion

Speaker: 00:44:55

and it doesn't have anything to do with ads necessarily.

Speaker: 00:44:58

One kind is where content can be swapped out

Speaker: 00:45:02

within an episode,

Speaker: 00:45:03

but then everybody that downloads it gets the same content.

Speaker: 00:45:07

So as an example, for this show,

Speaker: 00:45:10

let's say that we, well, we have some intro music,

Speaker: 00:45:12

but let's say we wanted to be able to change out the intro

Speaker: 00:45:16

based on the season of the year that we're in.

Speaker: 00:45:18

We have one for winter, one for spring, whatever.

Speaker: 00:45:20

We could potentially,

Speaker: 00:45:22

'cause of the media hosts that we have,

Speaker: 00:45:23

we could have a pre-roll that is our intro

Speaker: 00:45:26

and we could swap that out

Speaker: 00:45:27

and that would be dynamic content because we can change it.

Speaker: 00:45:30

On the other hand, there's dynamic content

Speaker: 00:45:32

that could be potentially different for every listener

Speaker: 00:45:35

and this is where programmatic ads come in,

Speaker: 00:45:38

where a media host is inserting something

Speaker: 00:45:42

for that particular listener to hear

Speaker: 00:45:45

and maybe not everybody else.

Speaker: 00:45:46

So I think there's a little bit of rub between those two

Speaker: 00:45:50

and maybe I'm not 100% right.

Speaker: 00:45:52

That's just how I think of it.

Speaker: 00:45:53

Dynamic content is anything that can be swapped out

Speaker: 00:45:56

without having to re-upload the episode

Speaker: 00:45:59

and dynamic content is also potentially anything

Speaker: 00:46:02

that can be swapped out for any specific download,

Speaker: 00:46:05

whether it's geographically targeted or random,

Speaker: 00:46:08

it doesn't matter, that's also dynamic.

Speaker: 00:46:11

The difference being one of them is stitched together

Speaker: 00:46:14

and then everybody has served the same file

Speaker: 00:46:16

and the other one is stitched together individually

Speaker: 00:46:18

for every person that downloads that file.

Speaker: 00:46:20

One more, this is somebody's pet peeve.

Speaker: 00:46:24

I don't remember whose it was,

Speaker: 00:46:25

but what is the difference between a podcast and an episode?

Speaker: 00:46:29

I think this is the hill we're gonna die on.

Speaker: 00:46:32

So Jennifer, I just recorded a new podcast.

Speaker: 00:46:34

What did I record?

Speaker: 00:46:35

(laughing)

Speaker: 00:46:39

- Well, I just started a new podcast

Speaker: 00:46:42

and when I say that, I meant like an ongoing series,

Speaker: 00:46:46

but the people who I'm talking to like,

Speaker: 00:46:49

oh, she released three podcasts today.

Speaker: 00:46:51

I'm like, episode, I released three episodes today.

Speaker: 00:46:56

- Well, the person could be really productive

Speaker: 00:46:58

and did start three new podcasts this week.

Speaker: 00:47:01

- Yeah, could be.

Speaker: 00:47:02

- Well, that wasn't me.

Speaker: 00:47:05

(laughing)

Speaker: 00:47:07

- Steve says that he's gonna claim that as his pet peeve.

Speaker: 00:47:09

I think it probably was,

Speaker: 00:47:10

I just kind of lost track of where I was.

Speaker: 00:47:12

Steve says a podcast is a show

Speaker: 00:47:14

and an episode is an individual release.

Speaker: 00:47:17

I will stand with Steve on this one.

Speaker: 00:47:18

I have nothing else to add.

Speaker: 00:47:20

Jesse or Jennifer, anything else?

Speaker: 00:47:22

- I'm in complete agreement with that one.

Speaker: 00:47:24

- Yay, we ended on a high note.

Speaker: 00:47:26

So Jennifer, do we have a chat GPT question of the week?

Speaker: 00:47:30

'Cause that's what we're gonna do next.

Speaker: 00:47:32

- Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Speaker: 00:47:33

And Patrick, you'll like this one.

Speaker: 00:47:35

If you had the ability to instantly master

Speaker: 00:47:38

any musical instrument, which one would you choose

Speaker: 00:47:42

and what kind of music would you play with it?

Speaker: 00:47:45

- Oh man, instantly master any musical instrument?

Speaker: 00:47:50

- Any musical instrument.

Speaker: 00:47:52

And what kind of music would you play with it?

Speaker: 00:47:55

- Man, you know what?

Speaker: 00:47:57

I would probably choose the pipe organ

Speaker: 00:48:01

because it is one of the most difficult instruments

Speaker: 00:48:05

in the world to play.

Speaker: 00:48:07

And to be able to master that would be unbelievable.

Speaker: 00:48:10

What kind of music would I play?

Speaker: 00:48:12

Probably Smoke on the Water 'cause...

Speaker: 00:48:14

(both laughing)

Speaker: 00:48:17

What about you, Jesse?

Speaker: 00:48:20

- Guitar?

Speaker: 00:48:21

Seriously, I wish I could master guitar.

Speaker: 00:48:24

My wife is the one who, she can make us sing.

Speaker: 00:48:28

I'm just the engineer.

Speaker: 00:48:29

I can make pretty sounds, but I can't make it,

Speaker: 00:48:32

turn it into music.

Speaker: 00:48:34

And I'd probably play like blues or something.

Speaker: 00:48:38

- Well, the first instrument that honestly popped

Speaker: 00:48:40

in my head was the accordion and I would play Weird Al.

Speaker: 00:48:44

But realistically, it would have to be the piano

Speaker: 00:48:49

and singable music is what I would play

Speaker: 00:48:54

for people to sing along with me.

Speaker: 00:48:56

- Steve says the cowbell all the way.

Speaker: 00:48:59

Steve, we could never have enough of you in our song.

Speaker: 00:49:02

And Patrick says a theremin.

Speaker: 00:49:04

I love that.

Speaker: 00:49:06

I didn't even think of the theremin.

Speaker: 00:49:07

And he says that he actually has one,

Speaker: 00:49:08

but he's not doing so great with it.

Speaker: 00:49:10

And Steve says also the metronome

Speaker: 00:49:12

during a marching band performance.

Speaker: 00:49:14

I should say that I do play the saxophone,

Speaker: 00:49:19

but I have far from mastered it.

Speaker: 00:49:20

But if I had to choose a new one,

Speaker: 00:49:22

that's where I was coming from with that one.

Speaker: 00:49:24

Jennifer, if somebody wants to be a guest, what do they do?

Speaker: 00:49:27

- They need to contact us by going to

Speaker: 00:49:29

podcasteditermastermind.com/be-a-guest.

Speaker: 00:49:32

And it takes you to a little form that you fill out

Speaker: 00:49:35

and we get the info and then we ask you to be a guest.

Speaker: 00:49:39

- And if you have any topics that you'd like us to cover,

Speaker: 00:49:42

if you'd like to be a guest on the show,

Speaker: 00:49:44

you can also reach out to us using that form

Speaker: 00:49:46

and let us know or email us,

Speaker: 00:49:48

info@podcasteditermastermind.com.

Speaker: 00:49:50

'Cause we would love to hear from you.

Speaker: 00:49:53

And we've got one more.

Speaker: 00:49:55

Steve says that we love you, Jennifer.

Speaker: 00:49:57

- Hence the metronome comment.

Speaker: 00:49:58

- Yeah, yeah.

Speaker: 00:50:00

I think that's all we got tonight.

Speaker: 00:50:02

So we'll call it before I beat the dead horse

Speaker: 00:50:04

or some other cliche like that.

Speaker: 00:50:06

I've been Bryan Enspinger.

Speaker: 00:50:07

You can find me at toptieraudio.com.

Speaker: 00:50:09

And this has been.

Speaker: 00:50:10

- I'm Jesse McEwen, Tansy Aster Academy.

Speaker: 00:50:14

- And I'm Jennifer Longworth,

Speaker: 00:50:15

bourbonbarrelpodcasting.com.

Speaker: 00:50:18

- Oh, and Jesse,

Speaker: 00:50:20

we should let you do a quick plug for Tansy Aster Academy

Speaker: 00:50:22

and what you do there.

Speaker: 00:50:23

'Cause you got some good stuff going on over there.

Speaker: 00:50:25

- Tansy Aster Academy is where I help podcast editors

Speaker: 00:50:29

or podcasters, anybody who's looking for ways to improve

Speaker: 00:50:34

their editing skills, I help you with them.

Speaker: 00:50:38

- And unable to join us were Carrie

Speaker: 00:50:38

Caulfield.

Speaker: 00:50:40

You can find her at Carrie

Speaker: 00:50:40

.land and Daniel Abendroth.

Speaker: 00:50:44

You can find him at rothmedia.audio.

Speaker: 00:50:47

For those that were able to join us live, thank you,

Speaker: 00:50:48

especially for your comments and your questions

Speaker: 00:50:50

and all of that stuff.

Speaker: 00:50:52

And if you listen later, we're super glad to have you.

Speaker: 00:50:54

You can find us at podcasteditorsmastermind.com.

Speaker: 00:50:57

Now I'm gonna try and click the button and do the thing.

Speaker: 00:51:00

So bye.

Speaker: 00:51:01

- Bye.

Speaker: 00:51:02

(upbeat music)

Speaker: 00:51:04

- How much is that?

Speaker: 00:51:05

(upbeat music)

Speaker: 00:51:18

- Hey, there we go.

Speaker: 00:51:19

I forgot to play the music.

Speaker: 00:51:22

(upbeat music)

Speaker: 00:51:30

[MUSIC PLAYING]