Is Starting a Business Right for You? – PEM0044

is starting a business right for you?

A little controversial perhaps, but …. How do you know if entrepreneurship is right for you? Setting up your own business isn't the only option available for a career in podcasting. We'll be discussing the pros and cons of starting your own business vs. working for someone else's business… and all the options in between.

Listen to Discover

  • How the landscape of podcast editing has changed.
  • What one word people use to describe Carrie that she doesn't like.
  • Reasons why you might want to consider starting a business.
  • A little of what it's REALLY like to run a business.

Editor

This episode of the Podcast Editors Mastermind was edited by Alejandro Ramirez. You can find him on Facebook if you're interested in talking with him about editing your show.

Be a Guest

If you're a podcast editor, we'd love to see if you'd be a fit for a future episode. Fill out this form to let us know you're interested, and we'll contact you to see if it's a good fit.

Your Yetis Are

About the Podcast Editors Mastermind

The Podcast Editors Mastermind is for professional podcast editors who want to grow their business and get more clients. We’re creating a community of like-minded professionals that are passionate about the art and science of editing podcasts.

Our goal is to help you build your business by providing tools, resources, and support so you can focus on what matters most—your craft. This isn’t just another group where everyone talks about how great they are at podcast editing; we show our work!

Follow or subscribe and take the Podcast Editors Mastermind with you today!

Transcript
Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Hello, podcast editors and post-production experts.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:It's:Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And I'm Carrie, in case you didn't know.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And I wanted to give you a little update about a few of the changes that we're making for the show in the new year, and that's going affect some of you, but.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So be cool because this is going to allow us to keep producing content and keep digging into the business of podcast editing.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Firstly, we want to know what you want.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So if you have an idea or a suggestion or any feedback, send us a message from our Facebook page, podcast, editors, mastermind, or email.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Um, yeah.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

At podcast editors, mastermind.com.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

We would love to hear your feedback and help you with all your podcasts editing business needs.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

The next thing we used to ask for editing and exchange for using us as an, a reference, putting us in your portfolio, however, What we have found is that we gave Daniel a like part time job managing that aspect of the show.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And so we are going to change that.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

We have hired a podcast editor, shout out to Alejandro Ramirez, see the show notes on how you can get in touch with him.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

If you're looking for.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

An excellent editor to add to your team.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

However, you still have to share them with us.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And with me carry personally.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So instead of doing that, what we are going to do now is make a sample episode.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

That's not as long.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And we'll help you create an easy before and after example to put in your portfolio.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And we will make that available to everybody on the website and, uh, by requests, if you ask us, so see easy solution, and then I don't have to edit and you can edit less and still get the same results.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And then finally we have changed our recording time to.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

9 0 5 Eastern that's when the podcast will be live streamed from our Facebook page into your eyes.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So please come join us for that.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

We're really going to double down on the live stream thing, get better at it and learn it.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So again, any feedback we'd love to hear it.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

If there's anything we can do to enhance the experience, leads, email us, message us, do whatever.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Um, yeah.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

At podcast editors, mastermind.com is that email address we'd love to hear from you.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Okay.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Okay.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Entirely too long.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I know I'm Kerry.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Let's get to the show right now.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So

Daniel Abendroth:

how much is that?

Daniel Abendroth:

Welcome to the podcast.

Daniel Abendroth:

Editors mastermind.

Daniel Abendroth:

Thank you for joining.

Daniel Abendroth:

If you're here, live and thank you for listening.

Daniel Abendroth:

Listening in on the podcast.

Daniel Abendroth:

If you are listening to a recording, we do stream this live every other Thursday for the most part on the Facebook page at, uh, podcast editors mastermind.

Daniel Abendroth:

So be sure to follow the page can get notified.

Daniel Abendroth:

Whenever we do have an episode like today, um, and today we have a very special guest, so let's go ahead and go around the world and do.

Daniel Abendroth:

I'm Daniel Abendroth.

Daniel Abendroth:

Uh, you can find me at Roth media to audio

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I'm Carrie Caulfield.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Eric, you can find me@yayapodcasting.com.

Bryan Entzminger:

I'm Brian Ensminger.

Bryan Entzminger:

You can find me@toptieraudio.com and our surprise guest tonight is

Jennifer Longworth:

Jennifer Longworth of bourbon barrel podcasting.

Daniel Abendroth:

Making her glorious return to the show

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

for this episode, at least she's never going to come back.

Daniel Abendroth:

You can tell we haven't upgraded our skills and streaming since you left.

Daniel Abendroth:

So, so today we're asking the bold question.

Daniel Abendroth:

Should you even start a business?

Daniel Abendroth:

Do you want a business?

Daniel Abendroth:

Like, what are your goals with podcasts?

Daniel Abendroth:

Edit.

Daniel Abendroth:

Um, and this idea actually came from curious.

Daniel Abendroth:

So I'll just throw it over to you to kind of explain the thought behind this topic.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So this is something that I have been thinking about all long time, because okay.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

This isn't going to be an unpopular opinion, but like the word entrepreneur is a total turnoff for me.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I don't want anything to do with that.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And I never liked being called an entrepreneur.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And I, I feel like I am a podcast editor.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I'm not a business person.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I don't have an MBA.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I paid attention to business stuff, and I try to learn whatever.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

But if I didn't have to, I absolutely.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Wouldn't not, not at all.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So it made me wonder, like, why.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Is this industry specifically just primarily entrepreneurship.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Right.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And I even did an informal poll and just Buster saying, lake lake, are you a business?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Are you the main stakeholder of your business?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And you like represent your.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And the majority of the responses were yes.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And white labeling working for somebody else, like only had together less than 10, you know, people were, you know, checking those boxes.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I've always been curious, like, why is that?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Why are we so fixated on being entrepreneurs and not editing?

Bryan Entzminger:

No, as I think about that as definitely see that there's definitely a, would seem like a push toward owning your own business, finding your own clients.

Bryan Entzminger:

And I think there's a couple of things that play into that.

Bryan Entzminger:

One of which being that for many of us, we're kind of a cottage industry.

Bryan Entzminger:

Many of us are self-taught.

Bryan Entzminger:

Many of us have learned on the job.

Bryan Entzminger:

We picked up the skill while doing a show and somebody said, Hey, can I pay you to do that for me too?

Bryan Entzminger:

So there's a little bit of that kind of thing going on.

Bryan Entzminger:

Uh, and it's a, it's a scrappy industry.

Bryan Entzminger:

There's, you know, it's um, and I don't mean to scrappy, like we fight, but I mean, like we're constantly innovating.

Bryan Entzminger:

We're constantly going out and working and like, there's, there's a bit of that.

Bryan Entzminger:

But then also, historically, I don't know that there have been a lot of what I would call big company positions for a person like me.

Bryan Entzminger:

So for example, in my day job, I work for a multi-billion dollar company, like a huge company.

Bryan Entzminger:

I don't know that they have a podcast editor.

Bryan Entzminger:

They have several people that do media globally, but the opportunity for me to have a job for them doing what I do is incredibly low and also the path to get there is incredibly long because.

Bryan Entzminger:

It's not, Hey, I can come in and make your audio.

Bryan Entzminger:

It's also, and I, I understand how to do networking.

Bryan Entzminger:

I can do remote global calls and I can hire a local contractor to do our live PA.

Bryan Entzminger:

And I can also do all of your video production, internal and extra.

Bryan Entzminger:

Like there's a whole lot more that goes into that than what I do.

Bryan Entzminger:

And I feel like.

Bryan Entzminger:

And unless I was to work for an actual media production company, even if I was to go after a large company, I would probably have to go after two or three accounts in order to have that kind of opportunity.

Bryan Entzminger:

So that's, that's kind of the perspective I have on,

Daniel Abendroth:

and I'd also add that podcast editing is still kind of in its infancy as a profession.

Daniel Abendroth:

And like until recently there weren't really like agency, like podcasts company.

Daniel Abendroth:

To where you could just go to work as an editor, as like an employee or

Bryan Entzminger:

the ones that were out there were hiring.

Bryan Entzminger:

I don't want to say taking advantage of people, but they were hiring low cost labor so that they could basically produce a commodity.

Bryan Entzminger:

And I ran into a couple of those people at pod Fest.

Bryan Entzminger:

Two years ago, they had a booth and they're like, yeah, what we do is 24 hour turnaround, minimal touch we pay, I don't know, whatever it was per episode, which is like, they're charging.

Bryan Entzminger:

To their clients less than I charged for what I do, but they're also not doing what I would call professional editing.

Bryan Entzminger:

And I think that there's a little bit of that where if you really want to be in the churn and burn business, I mean, there probably were a couple of roles, but I actually take a tiny bit of pride in what I do as well.

Bryan Entzminger:

And I know that you guys do also, I mean, we talk about it, right?

Bryan Entzminger:

Like, Hey, this thing that I did, I wasn't super happy with it, but like

Daniel Abendroth:

it's part of it.

Daniel Abendroth:

Yeah.

Daniel Abendroth:

So when I got started, To be, um, a contractor, like wasn't really an option.

Daniel Abendroth:

So I think like the only way forward and the kind of mentality syllabus a little bit is to stick out on your own, create your own business in order to do this.

Jennifer Longworth:

Okay.

Jennifer Longworth:

So I've done this three different ways, I guess, or four.

Jennifer Longworth:

I have kind of been an employee as a podcast editor when I worked in radio.

Jennifer Longworth:

My radio background as an employee got me into learning to do podcasts.

Jennifer Longworth:

Then I decided I didn't want to work for the radio station, your market.

Jennifer Longworth:

It was dying and losing everything.

Jennifer Longworth:

And I wasn't going to end up working for the additions to anymore.

Jennifer Longworth:

I didn't realize that, Hey, you know what?

Jennifer Longworth:

I can go out and do this on my own, but then I priced myself too low and ended up working for a company.

Jennifer Longworth:

And then I couldn't raise.

Jennifer Longworth:

Y'all might remember that story from way back.

Jennifer Longworth:

When you end up like that, you can't really raise your rates.

Jennifer Longworth:

They that's not how it works, but I've also done the sub contracting for other editors as well, but still you don't have as much control.

Jennifer Longworth:

So the benefit to owning your own business is being able to set those rates.

Jennifer Longworth:

And then you're the only one to blame.

Jennifer Longworth:

If you can't raise them, that's your own fault.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

But I think.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

There's a lot to that that's changing.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Right.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And, and this is probably why it's an optimal time to have a conversation because we're, you know, talking about, you know, back when we started our businesses, but like the market is so much different now.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Like I know lots of people, well, not lots, but I know people who work for other editing companies.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Right.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And they're, you know, I think we're getting to the point where editing companies that have scaled.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And who are almost like mini production house houses for independent podcasts, podcaster.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Like the amount of those companies has grown the amount of, uh, what they can charge as grown.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And as a result, they've been able to actually take on employees or, you know, and, and, or contractors, um, or team members, whatever you want to call it, you know, there's some that actually have employees, but also some that, that use contractors and pay them enough.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

To, I don't know, not starve to death.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So, and I will say that to Jennifer's point back when I started my business.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

It's not that I wanted a business.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

It's that?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I needed to work and make money doing something where I had a lot of flexibility in my time, right?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Yes, exactly.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Because my son's autistic, my son has, or my husband has this brain thing and there are times when I just need to drop everything and like work needs to go to the side.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I just needed to make money.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Doing something that I didn't like at that point, like didn't hate and, and the reason podcast as well, because it was doing graphic design and that's not fun to work with clients.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And I was like, Hey, well maybe somebody will pay me for this podcast thing.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And it turns out it was absolutely was the answer.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And I enjoy.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

It's so much, like I still like working on biogas.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I still like editing the podcast.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Didn't think I did.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Um, until the project's got a little bit more creative, but you know, that's, if I could, if I could give away the business part.

Jennifer Longworth:

Well, I was just about to say the business part when I worked for, when I was a W2 employee or when I was a 10 99 contractor for the other.

Jennifer Longworth:

Businesses.

Jennifer Longworth:

I just turned in my hours or turned in my work and then I get paid.

Jennifer Longworth:

I didn't have to go chasing people for money or sitting down once a month and doing the billing and trying to figure out how everything was going to go together and paying bills and all this stuff.

Jennifer Longworth:

I just turned in my dog.

Jennifer Longworth:

You know, you do the work you get paid, but you know, in that, what we want it to be like, and if it's this.

Daniel Abendroth:

I think for some, like, for me, I always wanted to have a business.

Daniel Abendroth:

Like I first started learning how to like, do HTML and like web design and like what programming stuff.

Daniel Abendroth:

Um, cause I always had like this dream of being a freelancer and working for myself and was like over the years, it was always like, I always had like something that I was working on with the hopes that it would turn into a freelance career.

Daniel Abendroth:

And then finally, like podcasting kind of became that.

Daniel Abendroth:

So for me, like I enjoy the business side of it quite a

Bryan Entzminger:

bit.

Bryan Entzminger:

I would say that I've probably fall, not too far from Daniel in the sense that I can't remember a time that I wasn't trying to figure something out, like how to build something, how to do something.

Bryan Entzminger:

Uh, wondering, like I had QuickBooks before QuickBooks was cool, just because I thought it was neat to think through, like, what would this look like?

Bryan Entzminger:

I don't know.

Bryan Entzminger:

Uh, I mean, we can do my therapy session

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

later.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

It's because of my love

Bryan Entzminger:

of spreadsheets.

Bryan Entzminger:

Yeah.

Daniel Abendroth:

I remember I, I signed up for like the, was it freelance union or like freelance websites even before I was actually getting any business.

Daniel Abendroth:

Yeah.

Bryan Entzminger:

One of the things I'm wondering, cause Carrie, you mentioned that there are more jobs now than there were before, and I totally agree with you.

Bryan Entzminger:

I mean, Christie there's Darrell.

Bryan Entzminger:

There's like tons of people that we know who have agencies

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

and lots of people.

Bryan Entzminger:

We don't know people we don't know.

Bryan Entzminger:

And I think I remember you on a call a couple of weeks ago, listed several places besides like going to Upwork or something like that, that you've seen people share.

Bryan Entzminger:

Job openings.

Bryan Entzminger:

And I'm wondering like, is that something that we could share here so that if there's somebody watching and going, Hey, I'd like to see if I could find even a part-time job doing this, where I don't have to do the billing.

Bryan Entzminger:

I don't have to mess with the taxes.

Bryan Entzminger:

Like all of that stuff is taken care of.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I guess that's something we can do.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I can share my list of aggregators, right.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Because I just have a little alert alerts.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

To like for podcasting jobs and podcasts, I think mean jobs.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And I have been watching these jobs for ages.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Right.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And we went from lake once every, so often once, maybe a month to like now they're just tons.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Right?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

There's I mean, that's sometimes where, like there were no alerts because nobody puts it a podcasting job, but now it seems to be expanding.

Jennifer Longworth:

Since we're talking about pros and cons of having a business or not, you know, working for somebody else, one of the drawbacks to some of those jobs that I, the job postings that I've seen out there as they want you to relocate, or they want someone, the one I saw recently, I'm like, oh, that sounds great until it says, must reside in New York city or LA or so the big ones, they want you to be there.

Jennifer Longworth:

And.

Jennifer Longworth:

One of them was remote available during COVID and then we want you to be here.

Jennifer Longworth:

So that's one of the drawbacks.

Jennifer Longworth:

Um, the flexibility goes away.

Jennifer Longworth:

You have to be in a

Daniel Abendroth:

job, the coworkers and a boss,

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

and they might want to see your,

Bryan Entzminger:

yeah.

Bryan Entzminger:

I mean, some people thrive in that kind of environment.

Bryan Entzminger:

I tend to prefer being allowed to be a self-starter and it's hard for me to imagine.

Bryan Entzminger:

Any job being worth locate, relocating my family, unless I actually wanted to relocate my family.

Bryan Entzminger:

I've had several job opportunities in my day job to move.

Bryan Entzminger:

I'm like, no, I don't care.

Bryan Entzminger:

If it pays more, we're not moving.

Bryan Entzminger:

My kids are in school.

Bryan Entzminger:

We have a life here.

Bryan Entzminger:

We have family and friends.

Bryan Entzminger:

We're not moving for $5,000 a year or whatever.

Bryan Entzminger:

Like it doesn't maybe if it was a hundred thousand dollars a year, more a year, that might matter.

Bryan Entzminger:

It doesn't matter.

Bryan Entzminger:

Like even stuff in Europe I'm like, yeah.

Bryan Entzminger:

France sounds cool.

Bryan Entzminger:

But my kids are in school, so no, we're not moving.

Bryan Entzminger:

That would be a huge drawback for me.

Bryan Entzminger:

If I was to work for a production company, they're like, yeah, that's cool.

Bryan Entzminger:

We love what you do by the way.

Bryan Entzminger:

We're in Colorado Springs.

Bryan Entzminger:

Would you mind coming out?

Bryan Entzminger:

No, I would not mind.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Jessica Rodriguez says I've done it both ways too, but working under that company, I had no control over the rates and they were not charging enough for what I was.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Yeah.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Yeah.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

That would be, that would be,

Bryan Entzminger:

and you know, that makes me think about like Spotify for this studio for that they're shutting down right now because they couldn't come up with a value proposition for it.

Bryan Entzminger:

So all those people.

Bryan Entzminger:

Moving on within the company, other roles or just leaving.

Bryan Entzminger:

I don't know how it's all shaking out, but if the company let's just take Spotify out of it for a minute, if the company isn't charging enough for what you do to make it worth their while, or they're not strategic enough in what they're doing with their internal marketing, to make that all make sense, your job is at risk.

Bryan Entzminger:

And if you have only the one client, a hundred percent of your.

Bryan Entzminger:

Income is at risk, which is the thing that really freaks me out.

Bryan Entzminger:

And part of why I started building a business because I like where I live.

Bryan Entzminger:

I work for a big company and reorgs happen.

Bryan Entzminger:

I mean, it's just part of life.

Bryan Entzminger:

And so I always want to have something there that if I need to, if for no other reason, then to spin it up for a few months, I've got something.

Bryan Entzminger:

So I can provide for my family because we are a single income family or like my wife is able to do other things because of what I do.

Bryan Entzminger:

If something happened where there was a line in the sand, like tomorrow you don't get paid anymore.

Bryan Entzminger:

That would be a really big hit for us.

Bryan Entzminger:

And if I didn't have anything on the side, that would be a hundred percent hit and that's a big deal.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So, Jennifer, I'm curious, is that like, uh, last year you decided to kind of pull back from podcasts editing, right?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Yes.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

What was that?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I know I'm totally putting you on the spot and I didn't warn you about this, but this is what,

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

what was your motivation?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

What's wrong with you?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Well, okay.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Did feel a little bit that way.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

It's

Jennifer Longworth:

still a work in progress.

Jennifer Longworth:

I, I think I liked the creativity.

Jennifer Longworth:

I do have a day job now where I'm there nine to five, Monday through Friday.

Jennifer Longworth:

I sit and do my job.

Jennifer Longworth:

I report that's it not knocking those people?

Jennifer Longworth:

My job, nothing.

Jennifer Longworth:

So if any of you all actually clicked on the street to watch it, nothing, blah, blah.

Jennifer Longworth:

But in the evenings, I'm an empty nester and I don't have anything.

Jennifer Longworth:

Um, so I, I have, I am still going through a bit of an identity crisis, so it's a little more than just the podcast thing is like, I'm empty nester, but I was selling my, my daughter.

Jennifer Longworth:

She was home for Christmas.

Jennifer Longworth:

I was like, I don't know if I want to keep doing this.

Jennifer Longworth:

She's my mom, if you quit editing, you're going to do literally.

Jennifer Longworth:

I'm like, oh, you've got a point.

Jennifer Longworth:

And I tell myself I'm not going to go out and seek out new clients.

Jennifer Longworth:

And then I come home from pod Fest, origins with a new client.

Jennifer Longworth:

I'm like, but I'm not seeking out, but here they come anyway.

Jennifer Longworth:

And I'm like, I'm desk going to serve who I'm serving and I'll just do a good job for them.

Jennifer Longworth:

And then I get a call or whatever, and I'm, I'm still putting myself out there a little bit, but not like I was, but I mean, I really hate the business side of it.

Jennifer Longworth:

I don't mind the editing coming back round to it.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So, but is that why, like, you know,

Jennifer Longworth:

one of the business, the sides of it that I toyed with as you know, is taking on subcontractor.

Jennifer Longworth:

And like, well, if I want to keep growing, then the entrepreneurial phrases to scale your business and everyone needs to be about scaling your business 10 ECC and all this stuff, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Jennifer Longworth:

And I'm like, okay, well, the only way for me to.

Jennifer Longworth:

10 X, my business will be to get subcontractors and I tried it and I'm like, I don't want to manage people.

Jennifer Longworth:

I don't want to pay people.

Jennifer Longworth:

I don't want to, I'm not making any money.

Jennifer Longworth:

They're getting all my money, but I'm not doing the work.

Jennifer Longworth:

So how does this balance, I don't want to deal with this.

Jennifer Longworth:

Forget it.

Jennifer Longworth:

I'll just do it myself.

Jennifer Longworth:

So it was kind of like, I can't break through a certain threshold without subcontractors and I don't want to do sub contractors.

Jennifer Longworth:

And I'm happy with where my rates are at the moment.

Jennifer Longworth:

I'm kind of.

Jennifer Longworth:

Squeak to them up a little bit on one of them.

Daniel Abendroth:

And I think that's totally valid to treat your podcast editing as just like some extra income as like a part-time job to hustle.

Daniel Abendroth:

Exactly.

Daniel Abendroth:

I caution these, the word side hustle.

Jennifer Longworth:

It's not a side hustle for me, but it's more than a hobby.

Jennifer Longworth:

Yeah.

Daniel Abendroth:

I mean, you know, you can have a part-time job to supplement your income or.

Daniel Abendroth:

Having a hobby that pays you.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Yes.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

It's like a hobby you get paid for, which is the best kind of,

Jennifer Longworth:

I don't like calling this a hobby after I've been doing it for, right.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Yeah.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Yeah.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

But I mean like in the way you view it, right.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So you're, it's not something you're like, oh, I'm hobby podcast later.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

But like in your life, that's the role it takes.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Right.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

It gives you something to do to fill up your time that you enjoy, unless you don't enjoy it.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Oh, I don't

Jennifer Longworth:

mind most of the time.

Jennifer Longworth:

And then you get that one show in there and then you're just like, I'm so done.

Jennifer Longworth:

Why is this twice as long?

Jennifer Longworth:

And it's usually the guest's fault.

Jennifer Longworth:

Nothing against my hosts.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Okay.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Yeah.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Well, so what this makes me think of is the idea that we have to be entrepreneurs, right?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

That we have to have a business 10 X.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

All the, whatever the buzzwords are in business.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Like we have to do that.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Right?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Like that's the only way.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And it's also kind of what we see in podcast editing.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Like you look at the larger businesses and you're like, okay, well, this is how you do it.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

This is, you know, and you have a hundred shows, but why does it have to look that way?

Jennifer Longworth:

Yeah, it exhausts me.

Jennifer Longworth:

I think of it.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Does it, it's an, it exhausts me completely.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I like, when I think about scaling my business, I'm like, I need a nap.

Bryan Entzminger:

So for me, I don't know that I'm necessarily looking to scale my business in the sense of developing an agency or something like that.

Bryan Entzminger:

But I do like having a couple of contractors available and I would actually like to build that out a little bit more because.

Bryan Entzminger:

I think that if I remain and I do have a couple of contractors that do some work for me, but as long as I stay in what I would call the freelance plus model, which is where I think I am, right.

Bryan Entzminger:

I'm essentially a freelancer and I've also got some people doing some work for me.

Bryan Entzminger:

It's not so much that there's a risk for me, but I am creating risk for my clients because there's not really a good continuity plan.

Bryan Entzminger:

If the primary editor that's.

Bryan Entzminger:

Is incapacitated or wants to take a vacation.

Bryan Entzminger:

Right.

Bryan Entzminger:

So everybody has to work ahead.

Bryan Entzminger:

Whereas if I had, and I'm making up these percentages, but let's say that I had 20 shows.

Bryan Entzminger:

I edit five.

Bryan Entzminger:

Somebody else said it's five.

Bryan Entzminger:

Like, so we've got it spread across.

Bryan Entzminger:

Different editors.

Bryan Entzminger:

It makes it a lot easier to spread that workload out.

Bryan Entzminger:

If somebody gets sick or if there's a holiday or maybe I want to take my kids on spring break to go to see their grandparents or something.

Bryan Entzminger:

And this time I don't actually want to fire up the computer and I don't really have that infrastructure right now.

Bryan Entzminger:

So it's not so much that I want to build an agency.

Bryan Entzminger:

As I want to build something that provides for my clients, the kind of service I wish I could deliver, but I can't do a hundred percent myself.

Bryan Entzminger:

Yeah,

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

that's a good point, but like it's not to 10 X your business.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

No,

Bryan Entzminger:

I'm not saying that.

Bryan Entzminger:

I wouldn't get to that point at some, at some point, right.

Bryan Entzminger:

There may be a point at which I go, you know what?

Bryan Entzminger:

I'd like to build this thing.

Bryan Entzminger:

So it's an asset that can run without me.

Bryan Entzminger:

But for right now, at least I like doing the editing.

Bryan Entzminger:

I don't want to build a business where I have to push myself into a role that keeps me.

Bryan Entzminger:

Doing the part that I like, it's not that I don't also like those other things, but I don't get a ton of energy from sitting down with a group and having a team meeting then maybe it's because I suck at team meetings and I need to read a Patrick Lindsay book.

Bryan Entzminger:

I don't know.

Bryan Entzminger:

Right.

Bryan Entzminger:

But, but I enjoy the editing part.

Bryan Entzminger:

I do enjoy interacting with the, the couple of contractors that I have, but I also like knowing that I'm able to help them upskill.

Bryan Entzminger:

If I really want to build an agency, I need to have.

Bryan Entzminger:

People that are better than me who are willing to work for less than me so that I can allow that.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Yeah.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So, um, we got a comment if somebody, so, um, I'm going to put your, your name and I'm just gonna apologize in advance, um, millimeter, which is.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Yes, I wasn't going to just going to get there.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

The first thing he says, I was being outsourced to edit audio or edit by another audio producer for a couple of years.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And now I'm starting my own editing business and have a cup of client clients that my rates are very low.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I think this is a great point that maybe we didn't have the opportunity to do when we first started.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

But those kinds of opportunities where you can subcontract learn the business, make money while you're doing it.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I mean, it's awesome.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Like I'm actually jealous of, you know, editors coming into this now.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

No, because it would have been so much easier instead of having to figure out, you know, trial by fire.

Bryan Entzminger:

Yeah.

Bryan Entzminger:

With no backup plan.

Bryan Entzminger:

Yes.

Bryan Entzminger:

If you screw up, there's nobody to catch

Bryan Entzminger:

your

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

back.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Right.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And podcast editing is like 90% of our income.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Now it made a difference at the time, um, when I started, but like, you know, this is how, you know, we support ourselves.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So it would've been nice to not have.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

B, one of the first,

Jennifer Longworth:

how long have you been editing carry?

Jennifer Longworth:

So

Carrie Caulfield Arick:I've been doing it since:Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And that was just on that cust when it really became something that people know new in podcasts.

Daniel Abendroth:dcast was started in March of:Jennifer Longworth:

I really am one of the

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

first one.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:I'm not I'm:Jennifer Longworth:lly freelance and like March,:Bryan Entzminger:

I think that that's a good point though, right?

Bryan Entzminger:

If you want to get into podcast editing and you want to get good fast, the way to do that is to get reps.

Bryan Entzminger:

And if you can find somebody.

Bryan Entzminger:

Where you can take on a role as what I would call like a junior editor and start getting those reps in now, that'll save you a ton later.

Bryan Entzminger:

I'm not saying that you have to do it that way, but in my view, it's a much lower risk way than if you start out by landing yourself a try to land a $300 an episode client like a big name client, and then realize I don't even know how to fire up audacity or audition or whatever.

Bryan Entzminger:

Much less like how to fix audio issues because you're going to have audio issues to fix.

Bryan Entzminger:

And it takes time to learn how to do them.

Bryan Entzminger:

It's not, it's a learned skill and it comes by doing it wrong a bunch of times before you get it right.

Bryan Entzminger:

And if

Daniel Abendroth:

you can work as a contractor for a while, you have that resource of, you know, the more experienced editor that if you do have, you know, a question or you run into something, you don't know how to fix, you have that resource that can be like, Hey.

Daniel Abendroth:

Can you help me with this?

Bryan Entzminger:

Absolutely.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And I think on the flip side is that there are businesses using subcontractors more frequently these days, right?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So there are those opportunities there.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So I would say that, I mean, I know this happens with the me and my contractors.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Like I will talk to them and spend time with them and give them feedback.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

If there's something they can't fix, I try to explain to them, like once I've done it, I try to explain to them what was going on and give him some tips on how to do it.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And you know, like Alejandro works for me.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And he, he does this thing that Brian was saying, like, he allows me to like, I don't know, take the weekend.

Bryan Entzminger:

Wait, what is this

Daniel Abendroth:

weekend?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

You know, it's like mythical two days of work where you don't have to do anything.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And I think that is a great subject to get into is like, what is the reality now of entrepreneurship for us, like, and for owning a business, what are, is it as glamorous as it looks?

Jennifer Longworth:

I went on a cruise a few weeks ago and in the airport, I was uploading a file for someone and on the boat, I was tweaking a file for someone.

Jennifer Longworth:

I mean, everybody knew I was going to be gone and tried to get me stuff early or late.

Jennifer Longworth:

And I did pretty good job of balancing things, but there was just one that I got stuck on and I'm like, I'll just do it on the boat because there's downtime on the day at sea.

Jennifer Longworth:

And I ended up just staying up late and doing it for.

Jennifer Longworth:

Well, the state room, but talk about the reality.

Jennifer Longworth:

I had my computer with me, even though I was on.

Daniel Abendroth:

Yeah.

Daniel Abendroth:

I think there's some nuance to like what it's like.

Daniel Abendroth:

So for me, like I work seven days a week.

Daniel Abendroth:

Part of that is by choice because I'd rather work less every day, but just work every day than a post, like working eight to 10 hours, five days a week, just I can have two days off.

Daniel Abendroth:

I'd rather work five or six hours, seven days a week.

Daniel Abendroth:

But then it is also like trying to get vacation is a chore because then you're working like double time and the weeks leading up to it, assuming that your clients will also get everything to you early.

Daniel Abendroth:

And even then, like, there's always like a few tasks that need to be doing while you're taking time off.

Daniel Abendroth:

But then the flip side, it's like, I don't have a boss to answer to.

Daniel Abendroth:

I don't have to go to the office.

Daniel Abendroth:

I don't have to dress.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So, but there are other things that a boss does.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

That like saves you agree?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Like they take the complaints, right?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

If somebody asks to see your manager, which is nobody does that.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

But if they're like fussing at you, it's not your like, ultimately it's the owners, right?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

The owner's problem.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And if you're contracting for somebody or like working as a team member in any capacity, then you are not the one who has to deal with it.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

You're essentially you, you get to walk away, right?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Like there is very little like you, you just downgraded your or freed up your time when you're not maybe getting paid as much.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Although I would argue that some businesses don't make a profit at all.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

In the first few years anyway, but so anyway, it's not your problem when you're a team member, honestly like on the days you have off, it's not your problem.

Daniel Abendroth:

Yes.

Daniel Abendroth:

I think it really comes down to like taking a good, hard look and introspection on what your values are.

Daniel Abendroth:

Like.

Daniel Abendroth:

Do you want the freedom that comes with working for yourself?

Daniel Abendroth:

Or do you want the lack of headaches that come with being a contractor?

Daniel Abendroth:

It's kind of figuring out what's more important to you for me, like not having a boss is important.

Bryan Entzminger:

I think one of the things that I think about when I, if somebody was to come up to me and say, Hey, like, should I be an, an employer, a business owner?

Bryan Entzminger:

I would have some questions I might want to ask them.

Bryan Entzminger:

One of them would be how committed are you to personal growth?

Bryan Entzminger:

Like how much do you want to be forced into situations where you have to make the tough call and stand by your decision, as opposed to negotiating with your manager about the broader business priorities?

Bryan Entzminger:

Because if you've got five clients, client aid doesn't really care that client B's show is taking longer than it should, which is different than working for a large company where you have different departments looking for information from your, for something from you.

Bryan Entzminger:

And you can see.

Bryan Entzminger:

I'm sorry, I'm the only resource that you have, and this is our business priority.

Bryan Entzminger:

So I'm doing the business priority one first.

Bryan Entzminger:

That's a much easier conversation to have internally than externally.

Bryan Entzminger:

I'm

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

also envious that editors coming into the space now have that option, right.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

To be like, do I want to be a contractor?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Or, you know, or do I like, or an employee, do you want to open my own business?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Because when you said personal.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I thought that maybe it might be better conveyed as if you want to spend time, like really uncomfortable.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Yeah.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And with the urge to hide there to the recovers and watch Netflix, entrepreneurship is for you.

Daniel Abendroth:

If you like sleepless nights dressing.

Daniel Abendroth:

Is this money coming in?

Daniel Abendroth:

How am I going to pay my bills?

Daniel Abendroth:

Hey, start your own business.

Daniel Abendroth:

That's a great way to

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

absolutely, because you can have all the policies in the world's about rates and billings that you want, but it comes down to like, how much do you trust these people to pay

Daniel Abendroth:

and how much do you trust them to keep going?

Daniel Abendroth:

Like, I think like September, October, I had a client just completely ghost me be more together, like a hundred something episodes have our heard from them in months.

Daniel Abendroth:

Okay.

Daniel Abendroth:

You know, a big client in this show at the end of the year, I have another one ending their show at the end of the month.

Daniel Abendroth:

Like, so in a span of no, a few months, I'm down three clients

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

and that's hard.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Yeah.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I had one year where nobody paid me during December.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

That happens

Daniel Abendroth:

that's

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Christmas.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Yeah.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And so that's like I had to take out a loan to, you know, just get through the month.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And that was a tough, tough.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

To experience it.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And it's extremely hard sometimes to have to be the one that everything falls on in the business.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Like I have to make all the decisions.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I, I don't want to make decisions all the time.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I want somebody else to make decisions because not only do I have to make the decisions for our business, I have, I also have to decide what's for dinner and that's a struggle.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

To do every day.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Like people want to eat and like people want their podcasts.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I don't know what, you know, I would love to be able to like, just set one down lately for a little bit.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Like again, my husband, do you know what I mean?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

It's like, it's very taxing at times.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

It's very rewarding.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Don't get me wrong and I love it.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

But if somebody said, Carrie, I will give you a hundred thousand dollars a year plus benefits.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

To come work for me, I'd be like, all right.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Yeah, let's go.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Where do I sign?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

But it was never my dream to be an entrepreneur to be in business ever.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And this is my fifth year in business.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And so I'm kind of like, what am I doing?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And do I want to keep doing it?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Um, and yes, I, I love the work too.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

That's the other thing, like I had to have that conversation with myself about, do I want to scale or not?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And the answer was no, because I don't want to manage people.

Daniel Abendroth:

So something you said, um, kinda made me.

Daniel Abendroth:

Okay.

Daniel Abendroth:

So I guess one perk that I have, or like one thing in my business, that's a little more unique is I have a partner, Michelle, she's been on the show a couple of times, my wife.

Daniel Abendroth:

Handles a lot of like client relations.

Daniel Abendroth:

So she takes point with like new clients and getting them onboarded and helping with the launch.

Daniel Abendroth:

And we each other really well in our strengths.

Daniel Abendroth:

So she can see the things that I'm not seeing and like handle things differently.

Daniel Abendroth:

So like together, like we make a really good team.

Daniel Abendroth:

So if you are thinking about like going in business for yourself, it might be an option to find.

Daniel Abendroth:

Maybe not necessarily a spouse or a relative, but finding someone else out there that could be a good partner and business.

Bryan Entzminger:

I think one other option that kind of came to mind as you were sharing that is something like Mike Wilkerson's editor Corps, where he has.

Bryan Entzminger:

Uh, group available for people or a place available for people who want to begin building out a podcast business, but maybe don't have the, the skills they need to up-skill.

Bryan Entzminger:

They need the marketing, that kind of thing.

Bryan Entzminger:

He's got a membership type thing that we're, he'll help you build your business.

Bryan Entzminger:

And then if you want to leave, of course, that's your call, but maybe.

Bryan Entzminger:

Something like that out there for other people as well, where they go, Hey, maybe there's a way that I can partner up.

Bryan Entzminger:

Maybe not an official partnership, but I can kind of get some kind of relationship with somebody that can help me with all of these things.

Bryan Entzminger:

Like if, if they really want to do the business.

Bryan Entzminger:

And I, I totally hear you, Carrie.

Bryan Entzminger:

If somebody was going to pay me what I make at my day job or more to do this, I would probably look to begin exiting the business, like based on the timing of contracts and stuff like that.

Bryan Entzminger:

So that I could do that.

Bryan Entzminger:

Not because I don't want to own a business, but because I'm not at the point where I could replace that kind of income with the business that I've built so far working 15 hours a week, I don't want to work

Jennifer Longworth:

for anybody else doing this though.

Jennifer Longworth:

Comes back to that too.

Jennifer Longworth:

I'm like, well, yeah, it would be nice.

Jennifer Longworth:

This and this and that.

Jennifer Longworth:

Not love not to have to worry about billing, but there's just, you know, if you're a W2 employee, then you're expecting.

Jennifer Longworth:

To be places at certain times and do things according to what other people

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

say.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Do you have a problem following the rules and following

Jennifer Longworth:

the rules, Carrie.

Jennifer Longworth:

Uh, so

Bryan Entzminger:

what do you mean I can't do bleed this one while it's not in the SOP.

Jennifer Longworth:

And also I have a diverse clientele and it's fun to work on different types of things.

Jennifer Longworth:

I'm not all, I don't have a specific niche other than.

Jennifer Longworth:

Just to Kentucky now, but I like that.

Jennifer Longworth:

And if you were doing it for just one person, then, then you might get stuck in that.

Jennifer Longworth:

I don't

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

know.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Well, I think as long as you have like different types of projects, maybe it could work.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I mean, my husband tells me all the time when I say, oh, I go work for somebody.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

If they paid me.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Is he be like, but you'd hate it.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

You absolutely hate it.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Now.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I don't know if that's true or not.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Cause I haven't experienced it, but I think I'd be willing to try and I would potentially be willing to move for the right price and for the right job.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

But I'm not in the same.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Like my son is almost with school, so that's not a huge.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And I love where I live, but I feel like it wouldn't be the end of the world would be a nice, interesting rural Delaware.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I know I do love Delaware.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

All right.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So maybe, but maybe I, you know, if I make enough money to like have this house and have another one, I would do that.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

But you know, I think.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Are we encouraging editors, like the editors behind us, are we encouraging them correctly when we're like, oh yeah, this is you start a business, you get clients, you do all this.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And do we give them kind of, do we give them, uh, a good picture of what that life looks like?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Because I have had days where I've worked 17 hours a day, 16 hours at a time.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Or whatever, seven days a week, 16 hours at a time, English is hard.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And then I've had times where there wasn't enough money, or I had to like skip something to get something done.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Like it's a personal thing to get work stuff done.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:And I have decided in:Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Doing anything I don't mind

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

no, but I think I'm gonna, um, kind of go against convention and I'm going to say more now in our mean no more and my rates more, and I'm going to do the Brittany Felix type of rate, you know, deciding rate.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Cause I'm going to just charge everybody.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Or the next person more

Bryan Entzminger:

increase your rates every time

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

you get a new client.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

That's how you say it.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I'm sorry.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I have been talking to all day.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So,

Bryan Entzminger:

I mean, I think Carrie, there's kind of two sides of that coin though, right?

Bryan Entzminger:

Because one part of it is are we giving an accurate picture of what entrepreneurship is like?

Bryan Entzminger:

The other one is, do we even have an accurate picture of what being an employee in this industry would be like?

Bryan Entzminger:

Cause the closest analog I can think of would either being like the house engineer for a music studio, if they even have house engineers anymore, which I don't think they do typically or working in radio, which I don't know, maybe Jennifer, you have a little bit of insight into the life of a radio engineer.

Bryan Entzminger:

Like I don't think that there's as much glamor as we might think.

Bryan Entzminger:

Because not everybody gets to work at Gimlet and be put into a video where they talk about how much fun it is.

Bryan Entzminger:

Cause it's not always fun.

Bryan Entzminger:

Like there's whether you work for the man or you work for yourself, there's a grind.

Bryan Entzminger:

And my view to the question of people starting out, my view is if we can teach people, if we can get people to at least try to start, there's a ton of personal growth that goes in into.

Bryan Entzminger:

Where, even if somebody hires you, you're bringing something to the table that you wouldn't have had.

Bryan Entzminger:

Like, if you can build a book of business, that includes three.

Bryan Entzminger:

That demonstrates a certain knowledge of how businesses work.

Bryan Entzminger:

That's going to be valuable for an employee or employer, possibly more than an MBA where you can do inventory analysis and all this stuff that comes into an MBA that transparently doesn't really apply to an agency business or the kind of thing that we do.

Bryan Entzminger:

Like most of what an MBA does has nothing to do with this, because it's all about funny money, like how to deal with accounting and how to project cashflow seven years out.

Bryan Entzminger:

Like none of that is relevant to what we do.

Bryan Entzminger:

I don't think.

Jennifer Longworth:

I think one thing that people don't always understand about podcast editing is that it ebbs and flows just like any other business.

Jennifer Longworth:

Now, someone mentioned how they're just going to lose three clients or in someone mentioned how they didn't get paid.

Jennifer Longworth:

And I've worked with probably 50 shows over the last five years by how many of them are still active, like five.

Jennifer Longworth:

So it just I've had really good months.

Jennifer Longworth:

I've had really bad month.

Jennifer Longworth:

I've had like, I'm not doing this anymore months, but it is a business.

Jennifer Longworth:

And when you are starting out as a subcontractor, though, that might affect you if someone pod phase, but you have the opportunity to hopefully get another show from that main editor that you're working for.

Jennifer Longworth:

And it might not hit as hard.

Jennifer Longworth:

Although my subcontractor, who I was working with when the harsh.

Jennifer Longworth:

But she was working on left me.

Jennifer Longworth:

I was like, sorry, I don't really want to manage people.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Sorry.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Like I told her that, oh,

Daniel Abendroth:

she's watching.

Daniel Abendroth:

She knows now.

Daniel Abendroth:

Yeah.

Daniel Abendroth:

Sorry about that.

Daniel Abendroth:

Yeah.

Daniel Abendroth:

I think that's a really good point because I know for me, like, I don't share, like when things aren't going well, I don't share a whole lot in the first place, unless I'm just like answering questions.

Daniel Abendroth:

But as far as like portraying what it's like, I definitely don't share like, I think

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

so.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I think we need,

Daniel Abendroth:

because

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

you know, I'm very, in a very flattering way.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I've had other editors out.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

It wouldn't be just like you, I want to do what you do.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And I'm like, no, you really don't.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Right.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Because it's hard.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

It is a grind, but there's so much to it.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And I feel like it's almost a grind that doesn't stop.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Because it is something you created, it's like having a kid.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Do you really want to have a kid?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I don't know.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

That's a question.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

You have to answer yourself, but having a business, like having another child and I personally am done, which horrible

Daniel Abendroth:

saying that if you could go back, would you still do.

Daniel Abendroth:

I would do it because,

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

but, but also I would do it because I couldn't get another job at the time that because of my son, I would have to like stop and leave and I hear lawyers don't like that.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So, um, Heather westerner says we need to be sharing the good and bad.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

We can't let.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Look like Lula Lula Roe.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Is that how you say it?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Yeah.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Everything is PG and amen.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Yeah,

Daniel Abendroth:

because I think on social media we have, well, it's just a thing.

Daniel Abendroth:

Like what you're seeing on social media is not the whole picture.

Daniel Abendroth:

People only putting their best self out there.

Daniel Abendroth:

So it looks more glamorous than it really is.

Daniel Abendroth:

I think it's a really good idea to be more.

Bryan Entzminger:

And I think there's also a certain element of not wanting to share anything that might go back to your clients and make them think that you don't like working

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

with them.

Bryan Entzminger:

I'm just saying like, sometimes you're in the middle of an edit and you're going, I can't believe this person knew how to plug into microphone.

Bryan Entzminger:

Oh wait.

Bryan Entzminger:

They didn't.

Bryan Entzminger:

Right.

Bryan Entzminger:

And you don't necessarily want to share that, especially at the time.

Bryan Entzminger:

Because they might already be self-conscious and it might make them feel like you're being demeaning toward them.

Bryan Entzminger:

I mean, that's why I try not to say too many things about something like the blue Yeti, because one, it's not actually a terrible mic.

Bryan Entzminger:

It's just used improperly and to some people have their identity tied up in that.

Bryan Entzminger:

And I don't want to be responsible for a podcast or stopping just because they think that they sound great on a blue Yeti.

Bryan Entzminger:

They might.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I've heard it.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

It's strange.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

This thing.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I

Bryan Entzminger:

mean, we had a guest on the show that used one and she sounded pretty

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

good.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Yeah.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

No, when you use correctly, if you know how to use it, it's it, uh, you know, it's a good microphone.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

That's only in the hands of a few.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Uh

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So, uh, All right.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Somebody else go

Daniel Abendroth:

try to remember.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

It's going to be awhile.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Heather says,

Jennifer Longworth:

yeah.

Jennifer Longworth:

So

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Heather says you should, oh, you should always have an umbrella and or other streams of income, whether full-time entrepreneurship or side hustle.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And I that's legit.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Right.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I, I like that.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So for my, I am kind of revamping my business.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I'm going to rebrand.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I think I'm going to move away from me.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I am gassing and brand under my own name because that's how you'll know me.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Yeah.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Podcasting is almost an afterthought, but I'm going to like simplify every.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Right.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I ain't going to go bare bones.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I ain't going to have a one page website with a blog component.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I'm not putting my prices on the website anymore.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And if you have to ask you can't afford me

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

and I'm.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Keep it super simple and only do projects that light me up.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And I think, I mean, I feel like that's totally doable because I've worked for the past five years to get to the point where that will work for me.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And, you know, I feel like the website is something that's hanging over my head right now and the content creation hanging over my head of things I haven't gotten to.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And

Daniel Abendroth:

I've gotten to the point where.

Daniel Abendroth:

Obviously, I don't need to put out social media content in order to have a successful business.

Daniel Abendroth:

So I don't need to stress out about it.

Daniel Abendroth:

Yes.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Oh, everybody I'm excited for this.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Cause.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Cause that's going to be a conversation of a later episode is, uh, what happens when you disappear from social media or leave social media?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So, oh yeah.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So that's coming in the near future, sorry episode.

Daniel Abendroth:

I also want to touch on Heather's.

Daniel Abendroth:

Um, and this is a relation to what Brian was saying about talking about like editing issues or like negative things about your clients.

Daniel Abendroth:

She said the bad as in the business aspects, not necessarily the editing, so maybe not some crap about your clients, but just talk about the struggles you're having in the business, not client specific

Jennifer Longworth:

tax time.

Jennifer Longworth:

That's all I know.

Daniel Abendroth:

Yeah.

Daniel Abendroth:

Hopefully we've all set aside enough money for

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

tests already been stuck in the 10 99 vendors.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I just

Bryan Entzminger:

sent out my 10 90 nines last

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

week, but I got stuck in like, oh, you can't get your eat, you know, 10 99.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

And just, you know, I don't want to have to talk to people like getting 10 99 and just mail it to me,

Bryan Entzminger:

email it.

Bryan Entzminger:

Oh, you mean from, from your

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

clients?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

From my clients?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Yeah.

Bryan Entzminger:

Okay.

Bryan Entzminger:

I was having the 10 99 conversation with my contractors where I was like, okay, technically I don't have to provide you a 10 99 because all of my payments were electric.

Bryan Entzminger:

If you want one, I'll send you one.

Bryan Entzminger:

And I did have a couple that wanted one and I just use a service.

Bryan Entzminger:

That's like five bucks to send them a 10 99 at emails.

Bryan Entzminger:

Them sends the paper copy and files, the state copy and everything.

Bryan Entzminger:

Cause I'm lazy.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I just want to clarify for the IRS that I have vendors and that contractor is.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Thank

Bryan Entzminger:

you.

Bryan Entzminger:

Okay.

Bryan Entzminger:

That's sounds like a

Daniel Abendroth:

conversation point you didn't have to, or maybe not.

Daniel Abendroth:

Well,

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

taxes would be a nice, like just things to do, you know, to deal with like tax season and stuff.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Cause I kind of use that show for.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So it's too late now.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

It's all happening.

Daniel Abendroth:

I think that's a good place to end it.

Daniel Abendroth:

Yeah.

Bryan Entzminger:

Do we want to do a pod next question of the day?

Bryan Entzminger:

Sure, sure.

Bryan Entzminger:

So Jennifer, since you're our special Getty for the day, I need you to pick a number from one to five.

Bryan Entzminger:

I have five, five decks cards for this is

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

going to be great.

Bryan Entzminger:

So those that are watching live, you can always answer in the chat of course, as well, brag to me about the best things going on in the past 30 days.

Daniel Abendroth:

Okay.

Daniel Abendroth:

I'll go first because I actually have, so I did talk about losing three clients, but I'm also signing on at least two.

Daniel Abendroth:

Cool.

Daniel Abendroth:

So one is going to be getting like my editing knows like the whole shebang.

Daniel Abendroth:

Which is over a thousand dollars a month, um, as well as two clients that are coming, coming on with editing and one with a launch.

Daniel Abendroth:

So, which is a large influx of cash.

Daniel Abendroth:

So nice.

Bryan Entzminger:

Yes, I'll go next.

Bryan Entzminger:

Probably the most exciting thing for me was I took an entire week of vacation between Christmas and new year.

Bryan Entzminger:

And I only worked on a show for a half a day during that vacation.

Bryan Entzminger:

So all the rest of the towel of the client work is done.

Bryan Entzminger:

All the things were done, nothing about our holiday turned out the way we planned, but I didn't have a bunch of work.

Bryan Entzminger:

So there was that,

Daniel Abendroth:

that is,

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

and I will say in terms of just being in business, I was able to take, and it's a little bit longer than 30 days, but I was able to take essentially.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Two months and stuffing into two weeks and able to take care of my family and have Christmas and just chill out and relax.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So that was very nice.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

That is a benefit to what we do.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Right.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Cause if I didn't do this, if I was an employee, there was no way I would've been able to.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

It just, wasn't a matter of 24 hours.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

It'd be like, okay, I'm out.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Um, we never worked so

Jennifer Longworth:

past 30 days for me, where you done, you said you ended up and I have a lot of people that are not so, so.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I know I'm really bad.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I'm so sorry.

Jennifer Longworth:

Past 30 days, I went on a cruise, like I mentioned before.

Jennifer Longworth:

So I like to brag about that.

Jennifer Longworth:

I'm going to plan the next one, going to, uh, focus, you know, pay more attention to business spending and stuff.

Jennifer Longworth:

We get hung up or maybe I should just say me that stupid question.

Jennifer Longworth:

What's your, why?

Jennifer Longworth:

What's your, why?

Jennifer Longworth:

What's your why?

Jennifer Longworth:

And that's an entrepreneur's curse is hearing that question all the time.

Jennifer Longworth:

What's your why

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

in podcasting?

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

It's wide.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Should I care?

Jennifer Longworth:

Well, I'm going to blame for my negative screws.

Jennifer Longworth:

So now I have a why.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Okay.

Bryan Entzminger:

That's a good

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

reason to care.

Jennifer Longworth:

So now I have, now I have a Y go ahead and share Heather's I can't not love.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

My mouse.

Daniel Abendroth:

So Heather did her first educational presentation on podcasting live and working on two more presentations searching for Lisa of course, huge for her because it was live.

Daniel Abendroth:

That is impressive.

Daniel Abendroth:

So,

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

um, another dang for, you know, podcasts editing in general because we get to do things like that.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

So,

Daniel Abendroth:

well, this has been a lot of fun.

Daniel Abendroth:

Listening to the replay of this or watching the replay, leave a comment either in chat or on the website about what your thoughts on this, how you're approaching the business side of things.

Daniel Abendroth:

Do you want to start your own business and create an agency or stick a sub contracting?

Daniel Abendroth:

Just like tell us your thoughts and like where you're at with this process.

Daniel Abendroth:

Because we would love to know as Carrie tease a little bit, we do have an episode coming up, talking about abandoning social media and what that's been like, have a very special guest coming on for that as well as Mike Wilkerson.

Daniel Abendroth:

Um, as Brian mentioned is coming on the show.

Daniel Abendroth:

So I'd love to talk to him about that program that you were talking about, Brian, that he has going on.

Daniel Abendroth:

So that'd be really cool.

Daniel Abendroth:

So be sure to follow the podcast, like to channel through all this stuff and things, you know what to do, Brian, how do people go about becoming a guest on the show?

Daniel Abendroth:

Oh, that's

Bryan Entzminger:

a pretty tough one.

Bryan Entzminger:

We have a pretty high bar.

Bryan Entzminger:

Um, but if you think that you can make it on this.

Bryan Entzminger:

And let's, let's just be honest.

Bryan Entzminger:

We measure based on crazy.

Bryan Entzminger:

And if you're a podcast editor thinking about entrepreneurship, you probably fit the bill.

Bryan Entzminger:

But if you'd like to be a guest on the show, reach out to us, you go to podcast editors, mastermind.com.

Bryan Entzminger:

Slash be a guest.

Bryan Entzminger:

There's a little form there that you can fill out to let us know that you're interested.

Bryan Entzminger:

It may take a little while because sometimes the Gmail scam scam, spam filter.

Bryan Entzminger:

Wow.

Bryan Entzminger:

It's been a late night.

Bryan Entzminger:

Sometimes Gmail gets us.

Bryan Entzminger:

And so we, we will follow up with you and see what we can do to get you on the show if it's a fit.

Bryan Entzminger:

And I'd also like to suggest that if there's a topic you would like to have us talk about.

Bryan Entzminger:

Maybe there's something that you don't consider yourself an expert in.

Bryan Entzminger:

You don't necessarily want to be a guest on the show, but it's something that you think would be valuable to you.

Bryan Entzminger:

Just let us know, hit us up on social media, send us an email through that forum at podcast editors, mastermind.com/be a guest.

Bryan Entzminger:

Just tell Daniel that you don't actually want to be a guest so that we can know, Hey, what we're doing is going to be valuable for you because we have some great ideas, but we also want to make sure that we get your ideas.

Daniel Abendroth:

Absolutely.

Daniel Abendroth:

All right.

Daniel Abendroth:

Well, thank you so much for listening slash.

Daniel Abendroth:

Um, Daniel Abin droughts.

Daniel Abendroth:

You can find me at Roth media

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

audio.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

I'm Carrie Caulfield.

Carrie Caulfield Arick:

Eric, you can find me@yayapodcasting.com or at Kerry Eric on

Bryan Entzminger:

Instagram and I'm Brian and spinner.

Bryan Entzminger:

You can find me at top tier audio dot.

Bryan Entzminger:

Or top tier audio on both of the socials that actually matter.

Bryan Entzminger:

And next to me is our special Jennifer

Jennifer Longworth:

Longworth of bourbon barrel, podcasting.com or KYB podcasting on Instagram.

Jennifer Longworth:

K Y stands for Kentucky, Kentucky podcasting.

Daniel Abendroth:

And we'll see you next time, everybody.

About the author, Bryan Entzminger

Bryan Entzminger is the owner of Top Tier Audio, a podcast production company. He's also the founder of the Hindy Users (Unofficial) group for Hindenburg users on Facebook, and a co-host of Podcast Editors Mastermind — a podcast focused on the business side of podcast editing. He loves sharing the lessons he’s learned from his struggles and others he's met along the way so that you can have a podcast that you’re proud of without letting editing take over your life.

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